Skill System Overhaul - A Mega-Suggestion

suggestion

#21

i dindt see that part of the post


#22

What about a Codex system (like in Starbound).
I mean, we learn something from the book and you have a special tab in which you can read the content of the interesting part of the book, but it’s optional (Thos who play Starbound will probably know what I’m talking about, cuz I’m very bad at explaining).
It could be interesting, even if I don’t care that much if it’s done or not.


#23

While I’m not against this, it seems unnecessary, at least until the base function of the book skill multipliers is implemented.


#24

I just now found this post :smiley:
I just wanted to put here that such a skill would only incline players apart of groups like mine that already disprove of the use of vehicles over walking will simply continue to use this tactic in 4.0 regardless of how good vehicles may be. I’m sure vehicles in 4.0 won’t be super OP and will require constant maintence and what not that will just slow everyone in the group down. Compared to walking in 4.0 (based on this suggestion) players that walk more frequently will learn to walk for longer periods of time, and learn to run for longer periods of time. Basically making walking / running super buffed

This kind of stuff will only lead to people grinding EXP by wasting tons of medicine. Very much how in Minecraft a plugin called McMMO rewards you for doing specific tasks. One skill to upgrade is repair skills. Players circumvent / grind for this by simply standing on top of a cactus and letting their armor slowly deteriorate till they have to fix it back up again. The same kind of concept is here, having to grind by using medicine on yourself / others even when it’s unnecessary. By the time you can use enough medicine to level up to anything good you’d die, and you’d loose the skills. It introduces unnecessary long unfun grinding and unlike McMMO whereby you never loose skills you would loose these skills after you die a single time.

The whole suggestion coupled with my suggestion for experience to be upgraded in a linear fashion would sound cool, but in reality the whole dying aspect and grinding aspect would just… meh…

Sorry if something in the post addresses this problem but it’s a bit too long for me to read, sorry. I still want to contribute by pointing out the problems I quickly noticed while skimming it.


#25

Partially unrelated to the topic of skills, but I personally hope that vehicles won’t require a whole lot of maintenance to the point that it’s more worth it to walk, because then vehicles become useless. I’d rather them just be difficult to get started (like having to find multiple parts, jump starting batteries, etc.) so it is more of a progression barrier than a difficulty barrier. That being said, vehicles also don’t have to be exactly so much better than walking that there’s no reason to walk anywhere anymore. Things such as increased enemy detection/aggression towards vehicles, dwindling gas, among other small things that give either thing a trade-off.

I believe the idea of this is that medicine and other “grindable” items should not be so common as to be able to waste so much just to “grind” exp in those things. Things like medkits should be like to golden idol of medical items, in a sense. Smaller items, such as rags, wouldn’t give tons of exp because of their ease of access. To be honest, there are so many ways to counter the need/ability for grinding, that I really don’t see this becoming an issue.

I believe that a system like this, if correctly implemented and not made super “grind-y”, should make death less of a chore to go get everything back, and more of a “Well, here we go again”. Even if that doesn’t end up happening, you’ve got to take into account that the game is not necessarily meant to be forgiving. Death is the antithesis of survival, and the player should do everything in his power to not succumb to it.


#26

Even so, the point here is why grind through it all if it’s going to be wasted on death.

If the medicine is hard to obtain then people will have to grind the means of getting the medicine to upgrade those skills for when they need them


#27

I think the intention of these types of skill systems is to not make it so that grinding becomes a necessity for survival in any capacity. It is more passive than active, though things can still be purposely trained if necessary. Gameplay should still be much more focused on more physical goals, like looting, base-building, and similar, not having parts where people are just running around a tree for multiple days just to build up that stamina skill.


#28

I never meant to convey that the point of these suggestions are to make it become grindy, I’m just saying it seems like a big side-effect of this system would just introduce it.

I’d still like to see a very rewarding skill system. And if it’s rewarding then people will grind in it. Very much how like people me do in Unturned I. If it’s not very rewarding then skills will just become something you passively gain and not really even care about. And if thats the case why bother adding them - Nobody would care or notice


#29

Then there probably needs to be a balance between them. There should be certain skills that should be more “passive”: things such as endurance, basic melee fighting, simple crafting, things like that. Stuff that a player does everyday just as they try to survive. Then, on top of the “passive” skills, there are “active” skills. These skills give clear benefits that feel rewarding, but the player needs to be a bit more active in order to get them.

7 Days to Die has a very interesting and applicable system in this case, though with skill points still in play. In the skills screen, there are noticeably two different types of skills: passive, and active ones. The passive ones tend to have levels from 1-100. They are things like I said before, crafting, endurance, etc. It’s not worth putting skill points into these skills since you could easily just train them by doing every day things (7DtD, for anyone who hasn’t played, has a lot of you just running in straight lines to find civilization). Other, specialized skills on the other hand are much more worthwhile to level up. They have smaller skill caps, and often require more points per level than the passive skills, but unlock certain things such as new crafting recipes, or tangible boosts to the player’s stats.

Personally, I think a combination of both a skillpoint system and a “grind” system could work nicely if implemented correctly.


#30

Did both of you realize? 3 MONTHS LATER?


#31

Yeah, I completely realize that, and likely so did Rain. I’m kind of tired of the whole “nEcRoPoSt rEeEeEeE” mentality that this forum has. When people actually bring up points rather than just going “okay, cool” in a necro, then I really don’t see an issue. It doesn’t make sense that when people, say, make a new topic on skills, and then the first comment is someone posting a link to a “better and more fleshed-out” version of the same post from a few months back, but then at the same time people expect that person, after being linked to that old post, to not ask questions and bring up points that may or may not have even been discussed in the original post. That just doesn’t make sense to me.

Topics like this are still relevant regardless of how “late” someone may be to the initial discussion. There isn’t really all too much on skills that we have to go by right now. If someone wants to “necro” on a topic that really hasn’t had any effect on the game thus far, then I feel like they should be able to do so without getting a bunch of people effectively telling them to fuck off for trying to have a discussion.

Let the mods just do their jobs. They have the power to lock threads if they deem necessary, or if requested by an OP. If I recall correctly, Reaver had a similar philosophy regarding necros, in which so long as they add to the discussion, they are acceptable.


#32

It is still kind of a bad necro though, as the only “new” thing he has stated is that cars will be hard to maintain (which isnt even new). So then what is the point of going onto an old thread and writing “Oh, this is so cooool, i love this idea.”


#33

It was still more productive than the present conversation.


#34

Precisely. While you’re free to grind, there are several countermeasures in place to discourage this or make it very un-viable. Passive gameplay is more rewarded, but in addition, if skill caps or skill gradients were in effect, this would heavily negate grinds.

Also, with Rain’s particular example of medicine, medicine would likely be very valuable in terms of your survival, as well as far harder to obtain. I wouldn’t be surprised if it became a very scarce commodity, and assuming a medical system rework, you’d be doing far more harm than good even.

The intention is that the most progression will be naturally gained by playing the game as it is meant to be and not cheesing mechanics.

He brought up some completely valid points. It’s a necropost, sure, but a very good one compared to others. This is how people should be necroposting.

I think many people here fail to realize that not all necros are bad.


#35

I believe that my suggestion is probably too late but who cares, i really like this post, and i like your suggestions, but i would tweak/change some things.

My main “problem” is with the books. I mean, i don’t know if you said this or not, cause I’m not familiar with old English (the big boy words) so bear with me. Let’s just settle this as a suggestion.

I think that some books should show you how to do something, and then you should train it yourself, (eg: hiding in bushes quietly with a specified technic shown in the book) Instead of getting experience (or a multiplier).

You see, i really like a thing called skill ceiling, so a lot of what i will say will be based on that…

For guns i agree with all of it, so instead of complaining, i will add my gram of ideas to it. What i think there definitely shouldn’t be is a skill that will reduce bloom or make the recoil pattern easier to control. Guns should stay skill based, and no in-game skill should change that.

You could debate about changing the recoil, but i still think that shouldn’t be changed. I do think that stuff like sway or deploy time should, but don’t overdo it.

I’m not gonna quote anything cause I’m waay too lazy to do that.


#36

My thoughts exactly.

It’s like how in most shooters, people deal with recoil better by actually learning how to themselves or using attachments, not using a skill that essentially lowers the skill ceiling for no reason. Most skills should be a lot more passive in nature.

Interesting! Never seen something like this suggested before, but it sounds quite unique and maybe even fun. This could, if we wanted, also be used in combination with skill multipliers too.

Hell, maybe this could even be somehow part of the tutorial if it was done right.


#37

He may mean melee only.


#38

What you responded to was from July, but yes, I did intend on melee only.

Though if criticals ever become a thing, I’d suppose the crit rate would be higher even when using a gun.


#39

God i love how you put words together.


#40

I didn’t read but I liked anyways.

chaotic neutral

edit: what the fuck I just realized this is from last year