Thoughts on paid plugins for a free game?


#21

Yes, that why I removed that section.

Anyhow. I already looked in the past and fiffe’s reply seems to be the one I’d agreed on.

Now, I’m not really a coder or a programmer of such. So I can’t say if it’s hard or a “babywork” to make a RP plugins. But considered on an hour of looking into one of the “mostly used” unturned plugin with a notepad+, I’d say it is. Not to count the fact that there’s a meme on how frustrating programming is.

I’m not sure if Nelson would get any income out of these paid plugins. Or not.

Same goes with the P2W servers. It’s the server’s rights to charge their player in an exchange for “memery OP stuffs” (even that I don’t like it) afterall. They’re just contributing the game in the way the majority wanted. Plugins required a personal skillset and “determination” to keep it updated throughout the game.

For an example. New feature in the game can completely screwed it up. And you have to re-created it to make it functional and oh look there’s another update, everything I’ve done in the weekends is a waste. Now if that’s doesn’t make you feel suicidal then you’re probably lying yourself or really high on crystals.

But I do agree on the price. 81$ for pretty much everything is quite a pain in the arse to deal with. But Isn’t it a one-time payment thing? Rather than a rent-per-month?

I’m not going to say that it should’ve exist. Nor that I supported it (I like pure vanilla servers.) But I’m just gonna say that we can’t really do anything about it. He choose it this way since a month after the feature was introduced.

TL:DR, It’s their right to charged for add-on for servers. Even if the game itself is free.


#22

81$ per server. So if you wanted to create another server /w a different IP you’d need to buy it all over again.

I remember faintly a long time ago asking someone to look into it, and they claimed it was babywork of sorts…

Maybe he didn’t make a good plugin API for vanilla because he lowkey wanted Rocket to be a thing and make a small percentage of money off of the paid plugins? :thinking:

If I were in nelsons shoes I’d punish people for profiting off of making his game unfair. Thats just me. How I would go about that is multiple ways. Those servers barely contribute their profits back to Unturned (I added up how much a server franchise in partiuclar made since it started receiving it’s first donations and it was over 110,000$. For reference I wanted to build a server machine for 4,000$ that could host well over 100 Unturned servers) But that isn’t the point of this thread.

Sometimes that happens to map developers, item creators, and server hosters too in other ways besides totally screwing up their item. Just how the adjustment from Unity 4 to Unity 5 basically rendered old mods useless / broke peoples games. Remember that back then? The point here is people that make free content still update their stuff. And even then nothing guarantees that paid people will still update their stuff.

What ‘feature’ are you talking about? P2W servers or plugins? What…? If we’re talking about plugins as I said in the entirety of the post he could’ve made a vanilla API, and then people would use steam workshop, and then plugins would be free.


#23

Then you probably shouldn’t have started this discussion by describing what you consider 7 necessary plugins for RP. Wouldn’t that be . . . profiting off of making the game better?


#24

Running an RP server doesn’t make the game unfair…?


#25

Ah ok. That’s still expensive nontheless.
Speaking of that. I kinda though that these plugins are for those server with “higher income” (or rank if you will. Just like in an RPG game where you can’t use a level 63 item if you’re at 34. Or such.) And meant to be an “mid-to-nearly-end” features to satisfying their players. Again, no clue.

No proofs so I can’t agreed on. Put that in the conspiracy list though.

Not directly at least.

Not saying that free plugin’s programmer are lazy. But there are various factors on why they might’ve quit it. Maybe because of boredom, existential crisis and what not.

Paid programmer are also effected too, but they can earned money while doing it. Unlike those freebies. That’s technically mean that paid plugin’s programmer will have more willpower to upgrade those plugins unlike free plugin’s programmer. Where they gained nothing for doing it. Added that up with psychology and they will likely quited.

Both “making a server” and “plugins” feature.


#26

My bad, I didn’t read the quote above. I thought we were still all discussing normal plugins.


#27

We all make happy little accidents. its fine.

It is quite the conspiracy indeed.

One of my suggestions in the whole EULA post was to blacklist servers. Thats a pretty direct way to throw a blow at unfair servers.

I get the whole point of incentive to because of money. However, this is assuming a bad experience or no support with the plugin dev = less people paying for it. People will pay for a plugin they want. Plugins are a one-time purchase /w often times no refunds. And in the case of the Imperial Plugins website there are no comments or reviews on plugins, so nobody has the free will to review a plugin claiming the dev “doesn’t support anymore” or “broken plugin” or something like that. So it doesn’t particularly matter. If you get what I mean…

I don’t get what you mean by “he choose it this way since a month after the feature was introduced” I’m extremely lost.


#28

That’s the Imperial’s fault. The little to no communication via the user and the programmer oftens leads to mild frustration. Oops, getting off topic.

When he introduced “multiplayer”. He “knew” that someone will eventually profited off on in-server features. When he introduce “Plugins making” he knew someone will eventually charged their customer for using their products.


#29

When people made the wheel they didn’t know they would make trains and gasoline-powered cars in the future. When people first made farms and basic civilization they didn’t know it would blossom into mega-cities and extreme technology in the future. The same how nelson might not have really thought about the effects it would have on the community at the time, especially since in the moment he would’ve been working on much bigger things in Unturned 3.0’s early development.

Plus, he wasn’t the one who actually made P2W possible. Rocket did. Nelson never got around to or made a form of rocket permissions for vanilla. And thats how P2W is made. So maybe nelson never thought about P2W early on because he hadn’t even made it possible to (in vanilla) P2W in the first place.

When he introduced plugins he was talking about modules and stuff back then, because he wanted to make a vanilla plugin API. Then there wouldn’t be paid plugins. But I guess he fell short and realized he couldn’t do such a thing. TBH I don’t remember why modules didn’t become a thing, and I feel it’s because Rocketmod already had a foothold in Unturned 3.x. Which is what makes me sad knowing Rocketmod already has a foothold in 4.x. Which just means nelson is probably going to be lazy again and not, as said, make a plugin API.


#30

necropost reeeeeeee

Sorry, had to get that out of the way. @Trojaner is right. As a former backend apprentice and community manager/lead admin of a decently sized TF2 community, I can agree that the sourcebans plugins I used were most definitely paid to use. And frankly it’s okay that way in my opinion. Someone wrote the script for that plugin’s programming, and if they want to sell access to use it, they’re in the right to do so unless prohibited by EULA. I’m sure the server’s financial guy would’ve loved it if the plugins we used were free, but it’s alright because at the end of the day we still got what we want and the plugin Dev got what he wanted too. As long as the game developers are cool with paid plugins, they’ll always exist, and I don’t see the developers footing the effort anytime soon, nor free to use plugin devs putting in the time or effort or support as I’ve gotten out of a paid product because in the end they’ll recieve nothing doing things like that.


#31

“Steams standard plugins” doesn’t exist. There is Steam Workshop which used to contain paid mods. No plugins here.

Checkout Gmod :slight_smile: It’s exactly like you said, it has Workshop addons, yet it’s probably the biggest addon / plugin market after Minecraft with many sites selling paid addons. As said earlier you need to understand what a market is and what competition means. As long as there is demand, paid plugins will exist.

So I assume your plugins never break, never need bugfixes, are never missing features and are always perfect. Never needed to contact dev, right?

Plugins use 90% Unturned API. Only permissions, commands and some events etc are brought by RocketMod. I don’t think you know what API means or how it works. For paid plugins it wouldn’t matter if loaded by RocketMod, Oxide, Unturned, Steam or whatsoever.

Nope, thats not why modules were a thing. The main reason was again RocketMod. RocketMod wanted to get rid of having to patch the Assembly-CSharp.dll on each update (because each update would break RocketMod and all servers had to wait until RocketMod updated). Modules solved the issue in a way that the Assembly-CSharp.dll does not have to be patched anymore and instead Unturned would load any .dll module files.


#32

I know this problem and I’m working since the last week on adding a review system.

Proof:


#33

Yeah no, not really… You just need to dive into Object Oriented Programming with C#, and even without any studies you can produce a potato working plugin by just looking at how the free public plugins are made. There’s no need to dive into computer science or even study it to just make a simple plugin for a potato programmed game.


#34

True, but there’s an e-mail listed on every single imperialplugins product that you can contact. Ofc… at that point you would be left to know if the dev is even alive anymore and checks his e-mails.


#35

Aktchually, it was the server owners that wanted to make the experience on their own servers P2W. Plugins are not made to be used for P2W, but can be used for that if the server owner configures it that way.

Well… Permissions didn’t make P2W, the server owners that saw that they could SELL their permission groups to players to give them higher access to things that are overpowered did that.

There would still be paid plugins. Just like there still are paid workshop mods.

Or maybe he’ll just potato all his code all over again.


#36

I hope it isn’t one of those “bias reviews” system, still. Glad to hear that.

That’s the one thing that can’t be fixed sadly, still, having an easier form of communication is better than what we (or they) currently have.


#37

True… It’s a downside. But hopefully Trojaner’s review system is great. I hope it also blocks potato reviews that just say “Don’t work” without even explaining anything :joy:


#38

This is, in essence, a good request for the wrong reasons. You want better modding support, but with the motive of wanting it to undermine paid plugins and pay to win servers.

I don’t think anyone here is opposing better modding support for II. But what I oppose is this notion that paid plugins are somehow inherently bad in a free game.

You’re essentially getting at that since some people enjoy the game and its community enough, they like to be selfless and make free plugins. And also probably because it’s enjoyable. These are admirable and respectable people, sure.

However, this does a lousy job at trying to convince me that someone else charging money for better plugins, is somehow ridiculous or immoral. Just because some people make maps, mods, and plugins out of passion, free of charge, does not mean that it is wrong for others to charge for a more maintained and superior version of said plugins.

I would like to know if they actually have any experience making plugins for Unturned specifically. As we know, certain changes to the game are too difficult because of the rushed foundation it was built on. I’m certain that this would affect plugins for Unturned uniquely, opposed to most other games. In concept, it can seem simple, but I’m willing to wager that constantly fixing plugins each update would be a pain. Charging money for a constantly maintained service seems fine to me.

But let’s suppose that it is ‘babywork’. Why aren’t there cheaper or free variants of these same plugins that are maintained like Imperial Plugins does. It should be a piece of cake according to your friend.

This is the internet, you act like people can’t go out and research to see which plugins are best, or as if people can’t ask around for recommendations (like on servers for example). If you do not do your own due diligence, then half the reason you purchased a lousy plugin is your own fault. (Plus, this dude is already on it)

And this argument that they can refuse to help, does not mean that they will. It’s in their best interest to maintain a good reputation with customers so that they get recommended more often. I.e. mo dolla dolla bills y’all. That’s significantly better motivation to keep their plugins up to date rather than free plugin makers.


#39

What a manipulative thing to say. The used to be paid, but then everyone was against it. If everyone was as enthusiastic against paid plugins as they were mods I’d probably see quite a lot less of them.

So you’re assuming all free plugins will break down, need fixes, and will have missing content? Which the dev could easily address if he wanted to?

It was clearly a joke. Calm down.

They wanted to make the experience, but they didn’t create the means to make such an experience. Rocket did. Plugins of course aren’t made for P2W purposes but of course often times can be used for such purposes (Vault / Kits are a big clear one). Not sure what you were trying to get at here.

Again you missed the point. Permissions are used to create P2W, server owners simply used it. Maybe nelson wanted to get around to permissions in the future of Unturned’s development and would’ve thought heavily about it, maybe think that it could lead to unfair servers with kits and etc. But since Rocket was already made and was already a big ‘community project’ I’d think he’d rather not take his time and just work on something else. IE just not bat an eye.

I haven’t seen a single paid Unturned workshop mod. Refer me to a popular one.

Again here is more evidence (by someone else) that it doesn’t matter if it’s paid or free. The dev could have simply abandond their project or stop supporting it.

This doesn’t exactly have anything to do with P2W servers, so lets not talk about them. However of course I think plugins should be free. Making Unturned plugins isn’t a job, it’s something you’d probably just do for experience or to better your own servers for competition. When it costs $80+ per server for a decent amount of plugins it really puts an anti-competitive atmosphere over the server list (which is where the P2W server come in, because they can afford such plugins. But again, I don’t want to talk about it)

My above text just explained partially why they’re bad in a sense. Anti-competition against small server owners or server networks that just want to run fair servers. There’s plenty out there, and I’ve spoken with a few other owners on the subject. We can agree.

An intern doesn’t always do their job because it’s enjoyable, admirable, respectable, or selfless of them. Most of them do it for the experience so that later on they can get bigger fish to catch. :wink:

Again, if you read other parts of my comments you’d realize there really isn’t a “charge for a more maintained and superior version of said plugins” because their ARE no generic knock offs of plugins. IIRC people aren’t even allowed to copy the same IDEA of a plugin without some sort of legal action pursuing afterwards. If there were more competition in the plugin market, as I said in earlier posts, plugins would become cheaper, and more people would make generic knock-offs of the same plugins except for free. Which is better for everyone. But again, sadly, that isn’t the case.

When was the last time you saw two plugins on Imperial Plugins that served the same exact purpose and were trying to compete with eachother over lower prices? I’m looking at their website right now and I don’t see any hint of “competition” amongst any of these plugins. They all have different subjects and fufil different needs. Almost as if theres a monopoly on the plugin market. I’m not trying to per say claim that plugins shoudl be free, though I would love to see that due to steam, but you can see the state of the Unturned plugin market.

Theres no cheap or free variants as addressed in the text above. I don’t particularly remember the guy, I just know he fancies in multiple languages including c#.

Though to point out the backwardness / wrongfulness of this. I don’t ever remember the last time I needed to update one of my plugins because an Unturned update broke them. I use around 10 plugins per server, and a gorillian gazillion plugins for my RP. The last time I ever needed to ‘update’ a plugin was because of the serverlist update with the new fancy pictures and etc, and I easily got a quick fix for it. So people claiming that Unturned updates regularly and will often times break plugins is an extremely weak argument in my eyes as a server hoster that uses a variety of plugins across a variety of servers.


#40

Yes, thats what kinda happens sooner or later. Not many free plugins receive updates and support for years (although some rarely do)

Must be the worst joke ever. I don’t think anyone got it.

The only reason you don’t see them is because it was technically impossible to sell them (as everyone can use them). But with another feature request we did, Nelson added workshop items which only work on whitelisted servers, which means that paid workshop mods are possible now.

Competition will always exist, and the person who has more money and resources will always win.

I don’t get why we are still discussing. No one supports your ideas here.