Can you not?
1 Like
Not even 9x18mm and 9x19mm are interchangable.
3 Likes
the crafting bullets of different calibers already confirmed
2 Likes
Thats what I meant by statistical variation. Obviously I dont want the super simple 3.0 system, Im just saying there isnt a need for super complicated stuff.
For cartridge types do you mean stuff like .223 remington and 5.56x45 nato? I would be 100% find with only choosing one.
Sorry for wanting a purely cosmetic change to also effect gameplay. I dont really want a system where you loot a military base, find 30 different ammo types that all look similar and then none of them work for your gun, that would just be frustrating.
If you want to simplify the game by combining different cartridges like the same thing, that's fine, (I think it should be simplified some aswell, but I think we would disagree on the optimal amount of simplification) but if the cartridges are combined by caliber, rather than by their actual performance, I simply will not play.
7.62×54 Russian and 7.62×51 Winchester are full power rifle cartridges and more similar to other full power rifle cartridges like 8mm Mauser and .30-'06, than to other 7.62 cartridges. They are the ammunition of powerful weapons like, DMRs, battle rifles, MMGs, GPMGs, and old bolt actions.
7.62×39 Russian and 7.62×37 Musang are intermediate cartridges and are more similar to other intermediate cartridges like 5.45×39 Warsaw or 5.56×45 NATO than to other 7.62 cartridges. They are the ammunition of weapons with controllable recoil, like assault rifles and SAWs.
7.62 Czech falls somewhere between the power of an intermediate cartridge and a full power rifle cartridge, similar to other cartridges like 7 mm Lantan, .276 Pedersen, .276 British, .30 WCF, and 6 mm SAW.
7.62×25 Tokarev is a pistol cartridge almost identical to 7.63×25 Mauser, and is also very similar to 9 mm Bergmann, 9 mm Mauser-Export, and 7.63 Borchardt, but is nothing like the aforementioned 7.62 cartridges. It’s ammunition for pistols and submachine guns.
2 Likes
This is the ONE thing I’m not willing to compromise on. In any case, military bases should stock most types of ammo that are used by its armed forces.
And yes, I also want civillian variants of cartridges that are less reliable, such as the case with .223 and 5.56x45mm M193/SS109.
3 Likes
What?
That’s like the only example where that would possibly make sense. .308 Winchester is actually higher pressure (therefore cycles more reliably) than 7.62 NATO, and there’s basically no other cartridge that has uniform specifications for military versions and separate uniform specifications for civilian versions.
Instead of just having civilian trash and military god-tier versions of every cartridge, I’d much rather see higher/lower pressure variants being a numerical value like quality percentages had in 3.X, (which would allow for more customization, without dictating how a mapmaker needs to balance each location,) and higher pressure cartridges shouldn’t just be more reliable, but also
- should be made from/a source of more propellant or higher quality propellant
- should cause more recoil
- should cause more damage to parts/attachments
- should increase damage, but generally not enough to change shots to kill, unless they’re armored or already damaged.
1 Like
Hmmmm…Yes.
I agree. As a side note, however, only military rounds should have tracers, armor piercing, incendiary, and other specialized rounds, wheras civillian rounds can include hollowpoints, which do massive damage to unarmored personnel, as well as special rounds like wildcats and +P ammunition usually used for home defense.
3 Likes
Here’s an argument why you shouldn’t group ammo by calibre. Imagine going to some police location, looting up a bunch of generic 9mm ammo. Then you head off to a military base, and oh look, an AS VAL! Then you notice that you have a bunch of 9mm in your inventory, and notice that AS VAL uses it! Now you can use a really strong gun with civilian ammo!
2 Likes
AS VAL in that scenario would use a diferent set if ammunition then.
Exactly. Also, the Tokarev pistol uses 7.62mm ammo. You’re telling me that you can stuff a cartridge used in the FAL into a pistol? Preposterous!
2 Likes
Exactly, it would use 9x39mm instead of 9x19mm.
There will probably be a “military” and “civilian grade” for every cartrige.
By making them non-interchangeable, you’ve made the idea of having military and civilian versions of each cartridge even worse. Why have 9×39 and 9×19 as variations of the same thing, if they’re not interchangeable? If they are interchangeable, then how is that a solution to the problem that assault rifles and pistols shouldn’t share ammunition?
Instead of having cartridges grouped by bullet diameter, and then having pistol, assault rifle, battle rifle, etc. versions of each caliber, pistol, assault rifle, battle rifle, etc. should each be different cartridges, which might have different versions which are necked down to (or have the neck blown out to) accept a different bullet Ø.
1 Like
But military grade 9mm ammo could also be 9x19mm, just of higher quality, because it’s used by the military too.
4 Likes
In the context of the game, a “military 9mm” wouldnt be used by pistols. Military in this context wouldnt mean that the military uses it but rather that better weapons use them
9×39 is far more like a 9mm version of 7.62×39 than it is a military version of 9×19.
Only Russian Spec Ops type people use 9×39mm. If you’re hellbent on this awful classification scheme, at the very least call it ranger not military.
1 Like
This actually makes far less sense than simply making the distinction between 9x19mm and 9x39mm
Lower tier 9mm weapons - “civilian” 9mm
Higher tier 9mm weapons - “military” 9mm
Its not really that hard to understand
Since you’re being such a hardhead, I’ll tell you the problem here.
This is 9×19mm Parabellum, the most common and widely used pistol and submachine gun caliber in existence. It is used widely in civllian pistols, like this Ruger LC9:
However, the same round is used by military pistols and submachine guns, like this Beretta M9
Or this H&K MP5A3
Likewise, this is a predominately military cartridge, the 9×39mm
However, this is a different 9mm cartridge, as it is used in special Russian assault rifles and sniper rifles, like this AS Val
Or this VSS Vintorez
Do you see the problem now? Your system classifies the lowly 9mm round into just civillian and military variants, however, by that classification a round used in a sniper rifle is the same round used in a pistol? You’re insane.
3 Likes