Gun draw weight

Seeing as he has more than leikely never worn a proper kitbag I think he would really think that.

Lmao, this.

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Did you seriously say pistols are better than assault rifles in certain combat? Do i even need to adress this? Assault rifles fire bigger bullets and faster, bigger magazine, better grip and accuracy and better range. Pistols dont need a “buff”, pistols are pistols. And literally anything is good if you “sneak up on him”. I can sneak up to someone with an assault rifle and still kill him… or a shotgun, lmg etc.

Same thing. Things you find makes you stronger. The luck arguement doesnt work. Some finds an assault rifle other person finds a baseball bat. Its the way the game works. There is equipment that makes you objectively stronger and thats how this game works. You cant magically make a baseball bat equal to an assault rifle. Assault rifle always wins.

There are better guns and worse guns. How is that hard to understand? There are civilian tier rifles that fire slowly or not even fully automatic, and military rifles that fire fully automatic, bigger bullets, better range etc.
So yes, you will look at that military rifle and think “This gun is probably better then the one i found in some broken trailer park”

But i thought you just said all weapons should be balanced, and no weapon should be better or worse then the other? What does “good gun” then mean? And now you say luck is fun but just before you said about how slightly reducing your recoil is luck based and bad?

When did we ever say its full of stuff? A backpack is a backpack. No reason to slow you down for taking it. They arent clunky. And they arent “massive” they are just a bit bigger.

Why in the world would you ever put metal plates around yourself? Its not only wierd its stupid and impractical. How would surrounding yourself in metal plates ever help you? I hope you realise that you can shoot and kill people, doesnt matter if they wear some idiotic metal plates around themselves.

You cant be unstoppable, and you can only be best at everything if you have the skills to do so. Yes, its balanced, he just spawned in and the other guy is geared up. I think you are joking by this point saying players who just joined should he equal to those who have been gearing up for a long time. You can take on a “guy like that”, but its not likely you will succeed.

You are saying that the game isnt balanced and dumb because you cant kill geared up players, who played for a long time, just as soon as you join?
I really hope you arent serious. Or you dont understand what balance and progress is.

You just said new players arent equal to geared up players and that thats dumb…
People have disadvantiges and advantiges already. Your worse better etc thing is called “progress”.
Look it up, people tend to like it when it comes to open world games.

You are “giving opportunity” by forcing everything to be equal. The player already has an opportunity and he can take it. If someone has a gun good luck “smashing him on the head with a bat” you sure can try. It is possible, thats just a fact. You are just trying to make a baseball bat magically be equal to a firearm. Guns are the best.

I dont think you understand what balancing is. This isnt some MOBA game or PVP game where every character must be powerful on a similar level. This is a survival game.

Im not going to sit here and decrypt what you keep saying…

It is what I have been doing to your posts so I’d think that’d be only fair. But you do you I guess, dropping and homiens and gibberish instead of actual arguments.

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You’re just going in circles. You want linear progression with no player choice in a game all about player choice. You keep repeating yourself, and so far the only argument you have is “because that’s how it works”.

I didn’t say they should be equal, i just said they shouldn’t be complete opposite. Same with guns. I never meant all guns should be equal, but you’re saying and have been saying this whole time if i have one gun that’s better than yours, you can never do anything about it and i win in a situation 100% of the guaranteed.

I, an many others too, could say the same to you.

Kinda contradicts each other, don’t they?

I’m actually confused now. Are you agreeing with me now? Also i never called it progress, i called it player choice. You’re putting words in my mouth again.

I’ve argued with you enough, and we’re (read: you’re) getting nowhere, i’m done.

Yeah. Did you seriously just say they aren’t? Why do you think the military uses pistols then?

For protection. Seriously?

You may not know, but it’s hard to stab someone through metal.

I never meant just protection from guns, from melee too. You keep forgetting melee. Also, there’s plenty of types of metal capable of stopping low caliber bullets.

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You use your pistol to fight to a rifle. You don’t use your pistol when you have a rifle. A pistol is not the better close quarters weapon when you have a rifle.

I don’t have an issue with different weapons having longer or shorter draw speeds, especially pistols having a quick draw speed and sniper rifles having a longer draw speed.

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Try to explain that to him, he doesnt understand

82 posts were split to a new topic: Gun draw weight - [Side Discussion]

Once more, i never meant using a pistol against a rifle would be equal, nor do i want that. But you continually implied you wanted a rifle to be better, meaning it is higher tier and better in every way, and that there is a 100% guarantee that you would win if you used a rifle and i used a pistol, and i had a 0% chance of survival. I’m merely saying that doesn’t make sense. You keep using the “x is better” argument when that’s exactly what i’m trying to say is bad.

I said “why do you think the military uses pistols” because again, you continually imply there is no way to win a pistolxrifle fight, meaning why even carry one? Why not carry two rifles?

TL;DR: I think there should always be some disadvantage people can exploit if they have the skill to do so. Obviously, a full mili geared guy should be extremely difficult for a freshspawn to kill. But it should be possible. There should be some way to do it. IE, all the armor is slowing him down. Rifles shouldn’t be the best, it’s a problem with U3. There should be some disadvantage that, say, pistols have over them. It should be difficult to win a pistolxrifle fight, but not impossible as you want. That expands over to attachments, grips shouldn’t just give static advantages, they should introduce a new advantage in one situation (lower recoil in a medium range fight) and a new disadvantage in another (slower draw speed in a sudden ambush/sneak attack).

No, that’s what you’re saying. Read the reply next time.

The one where I said “You cant do anything…” was because freshly joined people can try to attack a geared up player, but a lot of time they will fail if not all, so its still possible, but very hard.

Its always possible to go against anyone.

In Unturned II you can switch around attachments on the Eaglefire to basically create an AR-15 pistol build, but we can all agree that an item more specialized in being used as a sidearm (like the cobra) should be balanced to be a better fit for the role of a sidearm (Maybe it can fit in a smaller holster, maybe it can be equipped faster than reloading a primary weapon). Similarly, dual wielding cobras, or building them into an SBR shouldn’t be as good at filling the role of a long range weapon as an Eaglefire with a scope and long, heavy profile barrel. Why is this argument still a thing?

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Yeah, I agree. But detaching the eaglefire just makes you more of a worse rifle then a pistol. I mean in that scenario it should still act as a rifle meaning it cant be placed into pistol holsters

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Yes, that’s what i’ve meant this whole time.

I just don’t like seeing someone being given an advantage for no reason. If you get lucky and find a grip, i don’t want it to just make you have less recoil. It’s a free advantage, that’s dumb. It should introduce a new advantage and disadvantage. Less recoil, less draw speed! So now you get a free advantage at medium-range firefights, and a free disadvantage at close-range sudden combat. Or, just don’t take the grip and have neither. Giving free advantages means you have to take that, it makes you better. Again, it’s called a meta. Nobody likes metas, ask around.

I totally understand your point of view, it always sucks to find something cool but then to see it does something bad too. But from a game development standpoint, it’s just not balanced. There needs to be some reason to not take that grip, right? You have to understand that, right? Again, less player choice. More metas.

All in all, your entire argument is just

I mean that’s literally it. Don’t give people a bunch of power, give them power at some price. Free power isn’t good!

It made no sense because your accusation that pistols are never ever used in any way as long as they have a rifle makes no sense either, i wasn’t serious in the slightest.

I don’t know anymore.

Fair enough, though I’d like to imagine that wearing a bigger holster (like that of the vz. 61) would allow bigger weapons to be used as sidearms. (Although obviously there would be no clothing item in vanilla that would allow an m60 to be equipped as a secondary.)

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I like the concept of draw weight as a balancing method to slightly nerf heavier guns when you holster/unholster (and impacts if you can fast-draw something, for example), and maybe impact how fast the gun comes back to you when you need to move it away when too close to a wall for example.

How front heavy a gun is doesn’t actually impact how long it takes to draw out, that’s more in the receiver weight and length department.

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Gun balance (as in actually balancing the gun) would be neat, but a bit too far yeah. Draw time penalties cna be impelmented with minal effort and sound like a great way of balancing without dimsinishing the actual gameplay itself.

The downside of ARs should be length (Devlog 2(?) showed guns bump up against walls not sure if this stayed) and ammo being rarer than rifle ammo (I don’t know how that works out with gun calibers and military pistols but hey) along with pistols having faster draw times, lower weight, faster run speed etc.

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Yup. Guns getting caught on the wall is a thing i particularly like.

If you were to sift through the toxic waste dump that this topic became (which i will admit i am somewhat at fault for) you would find pistols having faster draw times is exactly what spurred it all.

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How about instead of having movement speed directly buffed or debuffed by weapons, we have bigger weapons debuff the ability to catch your breath from sprinting and holding your breath to steady your aim?

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