Lucifer Effect is a big issue: ideas to reduce it in Unturned

The problem every survival game has, is the consequence of death. A person in any game has the ability to respawn, whether on the same exact spot(loot wise and physical), or on a completely different server. There is no way to completely remove this problem. A developer can go so far as ban an ip as soon as you die, but there are ways to get around that. There can be no way to stop people from trolling. It will be especially hard to quell it here, because a young age breeds trolls. I like your ideas, but whatever Nelson does will never be enough. You can promote an idea of comraderie all you want, but there will always be assholes slipping through the cracks.

I agreed with you up until the “asshole part”

You are not an asshole for killing other players, You can’t just summarize a playstyle under asshole if its a viable way to play. This mindset does not help the conversation because you start to put people into boxes. “Oh you killed that guy because he was taking all the loot or had a gun you wanted? Damn you are an asshole!” If I don’t have or want to work with other people I’m not an asshole, I am just another player. A survival game is not the same as a team game, you can have teams but you sure as hell don’t have to work with others.

Basically the point of this discussion is that you can only encourage people to work together up a certain point without removing PvP altogether, and that despite methods that attempt to incentivize people not to kill each other, there will still be those who will do so regardless just “because they can.”

I think that the idea of having more advantages to being in a larger group/not KOSING would be great. I think if we can start sort of building a trust amongst players via quests requiring multiple people that would change peoples attitudes from KOS to maybe they can help me on this. Although this is kinda stupid but I remember when I used to play minecraft the whole shift and shield with ur sword thing was popular to signal you’re friendly. I think if unturned got to the point where the community did a similiar thing we wouldnt have as much KOSing. Essentially what I’m trying to say is that there isn’t many options to encourage players to not KOS without changing the way they think. But I do think the multiplayer quest ideas is a very good one.

Y’all are such scaredy cats, Just suck it up and deal with the threat of other players. Sure we can encourage teamwork but you guys are treating this like its the plague that we need to cure or it will be the end of humanity.

Well with the current way unturned is set up, if say I wanted to go into a military base like volk i have to scout it out for like 10 mins make sure its clear. Sneak in and then if i’m lucky i’ll live but 9/10 times I just get sniped randomly. The issue with KOS is theres not currently a way to easily defend against it because unturneds PVP is mostly just point and headshot with a sniper or spray a bit before they can react. Theres not much skill in most unturned PVPing its mostly position and who has the first shot.

Isn’t that literally the same thing in every other survival game where you can shoot other players?

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y the fuck do you need to scout volk for 10 minutes. Just Dive in, grab the loot, and leave. Simple

cuz i dont want to die

thats why I’m saying we should try to change that…

The problem with that is that you can’t prevent players from killing each other without removing aspects of PvP which would allow them to do so at random.

But when doing this you may entirely destroy the enjoyment of PvP in Unturned.
Being able to randomly die because you aren’t careful enough is part of the experience.
Being able to profit from somebody’s ignorance before proceeding to perform an action is also part of the experience.
Unturned is a survival game.

You can try to change it but it will not work, not without ruining the experience which so many had came to Unturned for.

@Number_one the entire concept involves around reducing the incidence of KoS, not stigmatizing it. Of course there’s always gonna be players skirmishing, that’s the entire point of PvP. But, that’s not really survival like having only that behavior, and it would produce a way more entertaining experience having players actually try to cooperate, manipulate, deceive, and whatever they could come up with instead of being a shoot what you see experience only. For that it’d be much better to play a battle royale or other type of shooter, it’s just going to be a frustratingly unbalanced experience if it’s just a one sided “good geared player kills any other player”.

For example, I find seriously unfun Unturned 3, because there’s not really anything much to do, ammo and guns are very easy to find around so no one has the need to manipulate or cooperate with someone to save bullets for when you really need them or get help to manage to work towards an objective in particular. The only thing you can really do is shoot stupid zombies or shoot players that actually react and fight. And it’s pretty mediocre in the gunplay too. The most fun I had was in a private 3 factions RP server where we actually worked towards building, defending, attacking each other bases, forming alliances and all that stuff, and there we would kill on sight only our current enemies or the occasional spy sneaking in the base, because you didn’t want to piss off a faction while you’re at war with another one already, etc. Or when I was part of a 6 people clan that played regularly, met with another similarly sized clan to propose an union, then we backstabbed them when they least expected to take ownership of a military van and gather the last missing night vision goggles for a night base raid shortly after.

The current game is pretty empty, and by that I don’t mean the 500 guns with very similar stats or the variety of decorative furniture, but actual gameplay. And it doesn’t really feel like survival unlike, for example, Minecraft modded with Terrafirmacraft.

Accidentally pressed a hotkey for post, let me finish.

You want to force cooperation? That’s not possible in survival without the removal of the player’s ability to have the option to KoS. What you want is forced cooperation.
What you need is an RP server.

You also didn’t read the detailed response to “Make Player Kills a Tad Less Rewarding”.
So I’ll put the important part in here.

Summary

The issue is if one person decides to KoS: everybody will.
It’s much easier to walk away alive with the most beneficial outcome from a situation if you just choose to kill the player.

It is part of the survival experience not knowing whether or not somebody is going to suddenly become your friend for no reason.

You don’t provide a solution to this.

Your average citizen.

https://youtu.be/e0gxeSpjdSk?t=200

Play a hard mode RP server then?
There is also this for a threat:
https://trello.com/c/k0WXh95y/14-bandit-npcs
Certainly, Nelson would probably make the Zombies much harder

And you have not a problem with this?
How can you push for cooperation when you are part of the leading cause of everybody resorting to KoS in the first place?
Mind you, your posts were much more pushing for a change in the mentality of Unturned players if your objective is further cooperation, which is impossible.
Unless you have somehow inherited an ability to change the mentality of people at your will, this isn’t going to happen.

The only way to keep both the PvP and the survival aspect of Unturned in the way you want it is to play a less strict RP server.

https://trello.com/c/JStYuxX0/10-crafting
Yes, this and read the devlogs.
It’s getting (slightly) better.

Of course, the survival aspect in general in terms of gameplay is one of the most lacking natures of Unturned 3.0, this will presumably be remedied in 4.0.
Relatively certain somewhere I recall nelson saying you could loot toilet water too?

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Wow, ok. You really like to jump to conclusions. I never said it’s forced cooperation. It isn’t if you actually can read. No one is forcing you to play in a differemt way. It’s instead promoting other playstyles.

And I’ve read your “detailed response”. I hardly believe it could be annoying and useless, because it fixes the part where players keep reusing the same items they get from other players without issues,while they keep gathering new ones that spawn. So, before there were 2 sniper rifles. Now there are 5. Now there are 12. Now there are 23. It keeps going because they don’t disappear, they just change owner while new ones keep spawning. But if death damages those weapons, players can’t keep reusing them infinitely, because in a skirmish where they exchange them multiple times will end up breaking them. One that wants to kill on sight will not be extremely more efficient than a scavenger, because to keep valuables they have to repair those items. Same applies to any other item. Of course, one has to be informed about the mechanic or a player wouldn’t even notice that. And it’s not just one of the many little things that together would reduce KoS in a natural way, but also a balance to make the game feel like you’re actually surviving. Hoarding powerful items makes the game stale. Rust devs and server owners know this too and made the periodical server wipe as a solution, which instead doesn’t have an effect on the player behavior and it’s even a mechanic disliked by some as they forcefully lose all their progress each time.

I also don’t really understand your example, what advantage you get from getting lots of damaged loot? What advantage you get from gathering 3 damaged pistols for example?

Also gotta love how you quoted me in a way to put the phrase out of context. “we [factions in a faction server] would kill on sight only our current enemies or the occasional spy sneaking in the base, because you didn’t want to piss off a faction while you’re at war with another one already”. Not just “we would kill on sight”. Was it hard because it made too much sense? Do you have a problem with this?

Nothing of this is going to damage how you want to play, rather it adds depth and challenge. There’s nothing bad in wanting to improve the experience instead of advocating for keeping things as they are. Unless what you are looking for in this game is a surrogate of battle royale where you can flex on lower geared players.

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Looks like @Number_one found another person to argue with.

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I can’t speak for everyone, but what I’ve been wondering is why there are still people who think Unturned II is supposed to fill the same niche as the original Unturned.

The majority of the community won’t care about the environmental experience that Nelson wants to create, only about the PvP experiences they create with eachother, which is (one of the reasons) why he’s choosing to separate the game that he wants to create (Unturned II) from the game that he has already made (Unturned versions 1 through 3).

tenor%20(2)

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can’t wait for somebody to suggest a fallout 76 duel accept or decline thing. If somebody does suggest, you do are have the stupid.

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Honestly I think this whole thread is stupid, I am probably gonna mute it after this comment. Just dumb ideas to fix such a non issue its sad. They lost one to many maplestrikes I guess :woman_shrugging:

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I used to talk a crazy ton on the issue of players KOSing like mad crazy. You know, considering I ran essentially the only non-KOS survival group. I can’t find any of my posts, but they all boiled down to the one simple idea of the Prisoner’s Dilemma and how seemingly no matter what players will always be inclined to do what they obviously think will get them the best as an individual rather than a group. If you upsize / scale this up, groups do what is best in their own interests rather than cooperating with one another - even though cooperation would mean more spoils.

You can learn about Prisoner’s Dilemma here, and a more advanced thought of the dilemma here

I’ve completely forgot my solutions to the problem, but, most of the ideas throughout your post seem OK. Though I hate videos like the Dayz friendly Experiment. It’s a experiment without a constant variable, and has very little data (trials) done. If that makes sense.

The whole “communication is key” part is the main separation amongst players. For my group, despite being friendly individuals, we immediately KOS non-english players. Obviously we can’t be friendly to people that we can’t properly communicate with. This is an unavoidable barrier to communication in literally any game, and a game mechanic tweak will never fix this. Though ignoring different languages then yes, communication is effective.

Everyone has noticed this trend in Unturned. When you start off as a naked looting a town other people within the town usually are also naked, and never bother you. Sometimes they do out of plain boredom, but for me we simply wave and loot separately. However, in late game when people are fully decked out players will always KOS - seemingly in fear of loosing their loot. Of course it may be just for fun, but everyone loves loot, and nobody likes to loose it.

The solution could be to make looted players feel more comfortable when confronting other groups of players or even lower looted players. A ton of my group members hate trying to be friendly because they go about it wrong - they give low looted players the chance and means to kill them, such as getting close and friendly to a noob with a masterkey.

Players don’t want to take the time and effort of “being friendly” the correct way - being far away, talking out loud over a mic, and making sure they’re safe. Players can almost 100% guarantee their protection by simply keeping their stealth and avoiding you, or using their stealth to the advantage of killing you. Giving up the stealth to try and be friendly to you in a game where people can find one-shot guns in civilian towns sounds like a bad alternative.

Another problem is a lot of players may not see the incentive to be friendly. So what? I’m being friendly, giving this noob free loot, and in return he runs off? To me I see being friendly as just my personality. I love being helpful, conversating on forums, contributing to the game and groups. I like to recruit players and make them my friend. I’ve met nearly 90% of my good online friends from being friendly to them. But for the average player being friendly probably isn’t a solution or even a choice due to external factors, like not having a microphone, etc.