Make SMGs/Pistols/Shotguns great again

Unturned II U4 Discussion
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These three classes are probably the worst, most underused ever, and as such they don’t get the love they really deserve, every Smg is outclassed by an AR, Besides the Scalar and Honeybadger, Shotguns just lose in every situation, sometimes even including close quarters, and pistols are just pointless, considering most people run a rifle and a melee weapon.

While Shotguns are getting some love with future plans of buckshot, bird shot and slugs, Smgs and pistols are still being left out when there is so much potential
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In Nelson’s 4.0 Wishlist trello, There’s a tab that says “Raise weapons when to close to cover”
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And another that says “Weight of items affects stamina and movement”
This got me thinking that Smgs and pistols could finally find their place in room clearing and sweeping towns, Currently there is one, overarching best set of loot you can get, Usually being full military, Alice pack, Maplestrike, military knife. There is absolutely no need to use anything else.
Now while we already know items are going to effect weight, I think this is a good time to discuss where Smgs and pistols will go, and I think Smgs should go in the primary slot, as well large melee weapons such as fire axes, or 3x2 weapons, and pistols should remain in secondary along with small melee weapons, 1x2.
This would make players chose between gear to use in towns, E.g Smg & Pocket knife, Or fire axe & pistol, And considering the melee fighting mechanics Nelson is discussing this could make decision even more critical, if you’re going into a town like Seattle for example you may want an SMG for players, However with a knife you’re going to have more trouble if you’re swarmed with zombies, and the opposite can be said for the pistol and fire axe, Of course you could always carry an AR or something in your back pack however this would effect your overall weight and would make this point mute.
These choices would also be effected by other variables, such as owning a car or having clan mates, Those going alone opting for the lighter and quicker set while those in a group would most likely be okay with having an alice pack and an Ar, especially if you have a car.

I’d love to know your thoughts on this, This was only an idea and I haven’t thought it all the way through, But i’m just tired of Maplestrikes and full military simply being the best, and never having any reason not to chose these items.

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Just make firerate higher, lower the click delay for pistols so you can shoot as fast as you click.

Haha SMG go brrrrrt.

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“Every SMG is outclassed by an AR, besides scalar and honeybadger” you do not understand the power of the calling card combined with third person

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Okay, I kinda forgot the calling card existed xD but yes that too is pretty op

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These are already added btw

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Ik, was just highlighting the text in the images

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A feature I think that will make these guns relevant again is the rarity of ammo and the guns/magazines. Having the correct ammo for the matching gun will make it your go to gun. DayZ has this feature and shotguns/pistols/smgs are all used because everyone doesn’t have instant access to a maplestike/heartbreaker.

Also another feature that makes pistols relevant in DayZ is hand loading magazines, and also the reload system. In DayZ if you have another magazine you can’t just hit R to reload, you have to open the inventory and drag the magazine into your gun, making this a slower process. Multiple times I have had to switch to my sidearm pistol to finish a foe. I mean that’s why people carry a sidearm in real life, to have more shots before reloading. Also in DayZ you can have a holster or chest holster for pistols. Like having a third weapon slot over your primary and secondary. This allows players to carry a pistol without sacrificing inventory space.

I think Nelson mentioned something about tactical vests offering the ability to quick reload with R. Does this mean he is going to borrow this feature from DayZ?

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If so then loading guns without a vest will require a look into your inventory. Something that may not be achievable in the heat of battle. So having pistols or other sidearms might be more of a variable option. I am very onboard for this feature and believe it will make gun fights more tactical. Thinking more about your shots then just spraying hitting R.

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I love this idea, When writing I was thinking back to either MW2 or MW3, in the tutorial they state that switching to a side arm is way faster than reloading, and I did wonder if that’d be implemented and how it’d be done, Because rn it’s 100rnds, and if for some reason you miss all of those you just reload quickly, iirc there’s a skill to increase reload speed but non for draw speed, even switching these two around would make a huge difference, However i’d be concerned it’d become like battlefield if it were not balanced with a survival game in mind and not a pvp game, In BF it’s shoot someone in the chest with a sniper and bang bang with a pistol and repeat, I’d hate to see that happen here, but i’d love to see pistols being used a lot more, I think there is a way to do this, and the way Dayz does it, from what you’ve wrote and not my personal experience seems to work very well, and I too would love to see it in game.

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Debatable

Honeybadger is a PDW, and Calling Card exists

Something tells me you either don’t know how to use a shotgun or never get in close range combat

A bit situational, but mostly pointless, yes.

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Did you even read my post about the calling card lol

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It is debatable, such as the PDW or, Yes calling card which I said I forgot in a comment somewhere, and shotguns, personally i’ve had a lot of problems with them, Idk if it’s just lag or what have you, but half the pellets will just miss at 10 meters, or even less sometimes

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the honeybadger is a carbine and it uses the same ammo as other guns in the military AR family.

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Notice how I put that into QUOTES, because they aren’t my words, they are the poster’s words, so you should be telling that to Pancakes, not me.

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It doesn’t matter if it’s technically a carbine, if we’re being technical about things the maplestrike, honey badger, empire, and peacemaker are all the same rnds lol, I’m just saying the PDW like any other smg is a 2x3 gun that fits in secondary slots, The point of this post was to say they should be primary and have a distinct advantage over ARs in close quarters and less so at range, like actual Smgs.

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I personally think that if the reloading should be more cumbersome, that it should have to be done by hitting T the same way you equip a laser sight, or grip, granted having a tactical vest would make this quicker, without having to hit T. I know this feature already exists but I think a heavier emphasis on the menu reloading system would add some challenge without making fights too difficult, though that’s probably just me.

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I agree, rn with skills it’s so quick to reload a 100 rnd drum mag, It’s kinda insane and op, Personally I don’t agree that it should be done by holding T, thought I haven’t had too much practice with the new menu system, I think maybe just a slower reload, Or like Tarkov does and double tap R to drop the empty mag on the ground and loud a new one quickly, or just tap r to put the empty mag away and reload a new one

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I think a big thing we need to consider too is single shot or bolt action rifles. One thing that disturbs me in the beta is how the sniper rifle and Eaglefire range and accuracy is the same. I am guessing this just because of the early access and Nelson hasn’t gotten around to changing bullet velocity and such. But to see AR’s be just as accurate at 500m as the sniper, we might see a Maplestike meta return. I mean an assault rifle is always going to be good especially in close to mid range encounters. But I hope to see Single shot rifles be supreme in a long range fight, making them useful.

Same for SMG’s and shotguns. They should rain supreme in close quarters over AR’s. I think a good thing to do for SMG’s is make them a lot quicker at shouldering and also make there hip-fire accuracy really good in close quarters. This is how other games balance SMG’s and make them a go to weapon for close quarters.

Shouldering speed isn’t a thing in 3.0 is it lol? I have never noticed it if it is. That’s a huge balance feature used to balance out different weapons especially LMG’s.

For pistols I believe the best thing you can do is make there trigger speed faster and allow for holsters. In DayZ a pistol is still a really good weapon, and I hate how in games pistols are just low damage pee shooters. In Dayz I can empty a pistol mag as fast as I can click. Also having a holster allows for the pistol to not take up a primary or secondary slot. Pistols are cast aside in 3.0 because every gun is just better (minus deagle).

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Team Fortress 2 is another amazing example of reliable secondary weapons, because of the way all the primaries and secondaries are balanced together. If you take the Engineer (I’m definitely not biased because I main Engineer, shut up) you can see that a lot of people who play Engineer use their secondaries very often, whether that be the Wrangler or the pistol. An important factor to take in here is that your arsenal is very limited and you can only change weapons after you die. On top of that, shotguns are very effective and are a part of the meta like the reserve shooter for the Pyro and Soldier or the Frontier Justice for the Engineer.
From Team Fortress 2 you can see that weapon balance makes the game more fun and enjoyable, versus in Unturned where Maplestrike is the only viable weapon and it’s basically an automatic marksman rifle due to the autistic range.
To be fair though, the only automatic weapons in Team Fortress 2 are the Minigun and SMG/Cleaner’s Carbine, and those are restricted to the Heavy and Sniper respectively. Most of the other guns available are semi-automatic (except the pistol for some reason) instead.
We’re not counting the pistol or the sentry, however.
Building on the LMG ideas, a mounted LMG (like a sentry, per se) is very effective in crowd control and denial of area. In TF2 the level 2 sentry is a fine example, seeing as it’s an automatic turret that shoots at anything that passes it. It’s extremely deadly against most classes, and it takes at least 2-3 people to take it down. Facing off against a sentry alone (unless you’re a spy or sniper) is basically a death wish.
I can see this coming into play with mounted LMGs in U4, if even possible.

I’m gonna use TF2 as an example yet again, because the way the game is balanced is amazing to me. As opposed to Unturned, if you’re skilled enough with a pistol you can easily face off against a class like Pyro, Scout, or even Demoman/Soldier (if they have bad aim lul).
What we’re seeing here is a reliable weapon that is cast aside in other games as a-

yet it’s considered to be a secondary that’s viable in almost any combat situation.

On a side note, can we get Nelson to play TF2?

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Honestly i’d use 3.0 pistols a lot more if there weren’t that weird cooldown implemented to prevent autoclicker abuse. Buff their damages a little as well.

I’m hoping in UII you need slings and sheathes to hotkey items, which would make pistols be used a lot more if rather than taking a valuable 1-2 weapon slot you could stick any other gun into, it’s just wear a holster and now you have a nice backup gun.

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Yes I love this, Like actually lol, I rly hate that schofields and hawkhounds are beaten out by people at 200m who just turn, prone, and happen to own a drum mag, It’s so annoying, i’d love to see the inclusion of rifles actually being a better option at range, Pistols being a good side arm because of no click delay, and hopefully they’re not outclassed by Smgs because Smgs would become primary weapons not just another smaller maplestrike on your leg xD

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