Open Discussion | What if we got rid of skills and skillsets

Unturned II U4 Discussion
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Oooh. I feel like I have to reply in all sorts of ways now. (I like how some people are just clicking the reply button to see who else is typing at the moment.)

Should we remove skills?

To start, I don’t think the game should bend over backwards trying to remove KoS, nerf third-person, or encourage teamwork and cooperation. So, if its main intention was only to curb KoS and create alliances, it probably isn’t the most important feature ever to begin with (as people currently only use it for other things anyways).

It’s kinda like the reputation system, right? Who actually finds the reputation system useful? This is that, except it gives you a bonus that makes dying less important (in Unturned 3).

I like the idea of dying being a threat/concern, so I’d want a rework if skillsets were to stay.

Should we remove skills too?

I kinda like the idea of skills. If Unturned 3 removed skills I would die inside because the default stats for our character are so low and I feel “spoiled” in a way by improving them. Especially stamina skills.

Specifically stamina skills.

So… I think most people want skills reworked anyways, so I guess at the very least rework them? Definitely don’t keep them the same.

Skills really do help, I think. It’s kind of a forced progression system, but it helps. Ya’know, illusion of choice and all that, but either way you have to grind a few thousand experience to max out? I prefer an experience grind that requires the dedication of time over literally waiting for time to pass. Nothing should stop the flow of the game, so as long as anything that does replace it

Without skills, I think the end-game becomes too RNG and skill-based. Having skills literally lowers the skill ceiling of the game, which has the (debatable) positive of appealing to a more casual audience. It lets end-game players just literally be better than fresh spawns.

Do bad players deserve any chance at all of making it to the end-game, and should fresh spawns have any chance of killing an end-game player?

Well, Molt? Should we!?

Maybe. Maybe to both, even, but most definitely a maybe on skillsets. Personally, however, I’m always a construction worker in version 3 anyways.

What should even be a skill in version 4?

Ahhh. There’s a lot of cool concepts and stuff to consider. I need to take a break after reading some of these replies. Just so I don’t forget though:

is a genius concept proposal. Combining this with the whole “decay” and “server wipe” problem might actually do something. Maybe. Just a reminder for Molt to not forget this reply for whenever he makes future posts.

I’m seeing base decay, possibly some form of “upkeep” that’s more comparable to base maintenance (like generator refueling but more), and then skill decay. Maybe keep experience storage (like libraries) maybe not. Those kinda also nullify the death penalties.

2c7 Ahhhh!

3 Likes
15

Put short, there are two games that I know that pull off skills/traits very well: NEO Scavenger (a recurring example due to gameplay depth), and Project Zomboid.

Neither has skillsets IIRC as they limit playstyle, but do your research on them - both have incredibly robust, diverse, and intuitive systems.

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Without skills, I think the end-game becomes too RNG and skill-based. Having skills literally lowers the skill ceiling of the game, which has the (debatable) positive of appealing to a more casual audience. It lets end-game players just literally be better than fresh spawns.

casual audience.

I’m starting to lean towards no skills at all now. I like the idea of a RNG and skill based end-game.

Lets ditch the casuals.

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I do believe this is probably the best idea for skills. Because killing zombies shouldn’t make me better at crafting. Chopping down trees shouldn’t make me better at healing.

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In my opinion, it would remove a good chunk of objectives that players have to work for. I mean sure, the 3.x skills were unbalanced (eg. Excercise), but they can be reworked and changed to better fit the realism and survival aspect of 4.x

When there are skills, and if they worked like the Skyrim skill progression mechanics, then it would reward players and help them focus on more things rather than focusing on little stamina and high tier loot as well for an example. That way, people would be focusing more on their survival and protection rather than their incapabilities. Because a person that has been playing on a server for a while (regardless of gear) should be a little bit at an advantage than a person who just joined. Again, the skills can be reworked to have a max skill of +25% stamina endurance. Not +200% sprint speed. It can be reasonable so that they won’t make newcomers at a complete disadvantage. It would be a little leg up for players that have been trying to survive for awhile. Skills should be those that help the player last longer in survival situations, not give him super speed, and 0 recoil, with less footstep noise. It has to be something reasonable to survival.

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I, for one, and I know I am in the minority, like skillsets but think they are poorly done in 3.x. I made a topic on my thoughts of how the 3.x system could be revamped for 4.x here: Character Skillsets: Something I'd like to see in 4.x

I think skillsets can add a lot of depth to the RPG aspect of the game (no I don’t mean role play servers) if done right. It is much more of an RPG feature so perhaps considering how the best action RPG games treat skills trees is a good idea. Diablo III, the F2P Steam knock-off which shall not be named (but has, imo, a better skilltree than D3…just sayin), and that’s all the RPG I play (or rather used to) :slight_smile:

For those of us who don’t know anything about RPG skill trees, imagine if each character class had a unique set of skills and special abilities to progress and unlock as their character progressed. This leads to uniquely developed inidividual characters with unique strangths and weaknesses that can be exploited or covered as part of the right team. Something like THAT would take a lot of thought and development indeed.

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I GO write This in portuguese

O sistema de habilidade na 3.0 realmente se provou algo ridículo. na minha opinião apesar das tentativas de Nelson colocando mais especificações nas habilidades ficou claro que isso não ajudou muito.
Na minha opinião o sistema de habilidades deveria receber um Nerf removendo as “especializações” e também coisas como velocidade para correr, menos coice na arma etc…
Realmente acredito que as facilidades antes dadas pela árvore de skills deva ser reduzida a equipamentos que você usa e a materiais como forjas ou algo do gênero em caso de Crafting.

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I go reopen this discut beucause the guy in here 2 months ago have a good opnion about this.

Yes is best remove the Skills and yes we still promote teamwork without skills

Is just place the skills in that you use or not use for example.

Gloves - decrease the recoil
Shoes - Acelerate your speed

and about the crafting itens
why no add a hard machinery to get to make the most complex items?

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TRADUCED
The 3.0’s skills system proved to be ridiculous. In my opinion, despite Nelson’s attempts to specify (don’t know what he meant with that) more the skills, it’s been clear that this didn’t help much. In my opinion, the skillset should be “nerfed”, removing the specialization and things like sprint speed, reduce recoil, etc.
I really believe that the facilities before given by the skillset system should be reduced.

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My idea: Remove skillsets and give a limited amount of skill points to the player, so the player will not be able to max all skills, having to choose where he is going to be specialized.

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Like the sims? Actually, that’s a great idea, I could use it.

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IMHO, skill levels should be earned, not bought with Exp. If you shoot a rifle more a lot (and like, you’re hitting a target) then your character is more comfortable wielding a rifle and can perform maintenance and reloading more efficiently and has better steadiness when aiming. Looking to other games often helps when trying to figure out what does and doesn’t work.

I don’t play Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead, but I’ve been watching Aavak play it via YouTube, and it looks to be well thought out.

The character creation in said game is quite interesting, and allows you to pick your prior occupation or role in society, your basic attributes, positive and negative attributes, as well as basic skills. Each costs points or (in the case of negative attributes or negative roles(e.g. a junkie or sick patient)) earns points). Your prior role also determines what you start out with on your player. Choosing a well kitted role costs more points and means you have less to spend on your character at start, which means you’ll have to spend the remaining points wisely.

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What about Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead?
It’s a rogue like, and honestly, I suck at it, but it seems well fleshed out as far as core mechanics go.

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I made that comment a month ago, and I used two fairly well known examples.

Also, it’s worth adding that NEO Scavenger features a system that’s pretty much exactly the same as the one from CCDA.

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Cool, gonna check that game out then. Also cool that there are already ideas for this.

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@Yarrrr actually mentioned your idea @UltimateCatTree in one of my first threads.

But the more I play Unturned the more I just kinda wish skills were gone

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If there are no skills whatsoever, the game becomes entirely about what loot the RNG gives you.

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You dont believe that this system go give advantages to

time played > skill

and go place very difficulty to new players up in game. As it happens in 3.0?

and in general system of skills rarely are implemented in PvP multiplayer games save the exeption
Call of duty ghosts and unturned (i remenber just this)

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The problem in 3.0 is that skilslets are useless because you can still train every skill to max, meaning you don’t need other people to survive effectively do they just become walking loot bags…

Skillsets are supposed to work as a class system meaning the medic can’t also be a maxed out farmer…

This also encourages teamwork because you will need people of varying skillsets…

To balance it out you would separate the skills into " general skills" that EVERYONE can train (stamina/cardio,fighting,shooting,etc) and then every survivor has one “special skill” (medical, farming, mechanic, etc)

I feel this would be the best way.

For solo players maybe have a jack of all trades skill but they can’t max out any special skill they instead can train them all half way or something.

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prime i discord with you first dont is easy you make a good team (in my life of unturned i make many groups but to other players maybe are a thing hard to do)

and other thing this is more less the system of 3.0 this result in a “accumulation of principal skills” giving advantages on top of other players.

and why equal skills dont go reforce the team work? just observe the game rust is impossible play without a team.

my opnion to make team work more present is reduce the damage of all weapons, reduce loot spawn and togheter with this place advantages on clothes, turn bases things extremaly hard to build solo, add a system of blueprint or craftable itens for mid of a research bench.