The dark side of unturned by zman1064

Thats the secret. It’s the only thing that keeps me going.

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XD i never expected that answer.
GG WP

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I decided to pop in just to see how this is.

Couldn’t agree with @FalkenJr more, even if I very much dislike him.

Lets see what the juicy parts, or “lower parts of the iceberg” are, so to speak, that he didn’t analyze on

  • Sven-Rocketmod blatant abuse (Observatory, Flying Mushrooms)
    ** Nelson supporting Sven-Rocketmod blatant abuse
    ** Nelson further doubling down when confronted about Sven-Rocketmod blatant abuse
    ** Nelson not learning anything from the incident and being open to allowing a third-party Plugin API for 4.0 to happen again, so essentially the same clusterfuck all over again.
Observatory

Here is something I wrote a long time ago

Sven is a very power-hungry individual, there’s plenty of very suspicious and malicious things he has intentionally and purposely done with Rocket to gain leverage or power over others. What do I mean? Let’s get into the meat. First off Sven made a ‘plugin’ for rocket called Observatory. Observatory is a neat concept, it’s supposed to be a universal ban-list for hackers across all Unturned servers running the Observatory plugin. Server moderators would get evidence of a hacker, send it to the Observatory website, and people would vote against the player, determining on their own if that player is cheating or not. That sounds great right?

It sort of does, until further down Observatory’s development Sven decided to take it from being a voluntary, downloadable plugin to being engrained into Rocket itself. By default every Rocketmod server had observatory and everyone banned by observatory was banned on virtually every rocket server (which is most servers). That on it’s own is a bit suspicious and uncalled for - nobody asked Sven to do this, he did this himself. But it doesn’t really end there.

Sven has personally banned people he doesn’t agree with or like with no trial or voting whatsoever. He banned a big figure in the community named ItzEdInYourBed, which is a moderator for the /r/unturned subreddit and a good moderator amongst plenty of other places. There was an entire post dedicated against Sven for this action and other actions he has done. I’m not entirely sure, but I am almost certain Sven has probably used this dictator-like power to instant ban anyone he doesn’t like from all rocket servers at one point or another, this can’t be just a one-time incident.

And if you’re wondering why Sven banned ItzEd in the first place, it was because he supposedly joined a hacker-related discord - not to obtain or talk about hacks at all, he only joined to help fix a discord bot they kindly asked him to fix. I just want to point out and put heavy emphasis that Sven intentionally made Observatory apart of Rocket, and intentionally turned it on by default, and intentionally banned these people he did not like without giving them a vote, voice or opinion.

Flying Mushrooms

A code secretly implemented, not announced in any bug fixes or patches, that, when read backwards by the computer, was a list of Steam64ID’s of players Sven did not like, that were hard-coded into Rocketmod, and would ban players from all the servers running Rocketmod. No server owners knew about this, of course.

The code might still exist, but we know it exists for sure because its in the Github history


https://github.com/RocketMod/Rocket.Unturned/commit/b35becaab53f3e59658fe9736b1d9bd688bedc07


https://github.com/RocketMod/Rocket.Unturned/commit/063d704eb0601ec6eebcc515de655b747c58b104

Sven when confronted

Nelson defended all of that rather than calling him out or condoning his negative harmful actions against the community.

  • The extreme lengths server franchises go to manipulate children into wasting their money on ranks, kits, etc. Manipulating the community, buying out Youtubers, leading to the decline of the server-list as a whole systematically killing the game.
    ** Nelson chose not to do anything about this, not even trying to implement any features that would counter-act manipulative, abusive, horrible, yet profitable behaviour in his own community.
    ** The sheer amount of money these fuckers make is unreal. Just wanted to say.

  • Imperial Plugin’s anti-consumer Monopoly policies that keep plugin prices unlimitedly high and thus raise the bar for potentially good servers behind absurd plugin paywalls

  • Imperial Plugin’s possibly illegal Terms Of Service abuse
    ** Nelson chooses not to address this in any kind of way, not implementing any kind of official plugin distribution website (or even just a Steam Workshop section) to prevent potential third-party abuses.

  • SDG Forum Moderators allowing Fascist and Ultranationalist symbolism, imagery, and ideas simply because “they’re not popular enough to recieve wide-ranging backlash for”

this is straight up not a fucking joke


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falange_Española_de_las_JONS
“The Falange Española de las Juntas de Ofensiva Nacional Sindicalista ( FE de las JONS ; English: Spanish Phalanx of the Councils of the National Syndicalist Offensive), was a fascist political party founded in 1934”

  • SDG Forum Moderators long history and pattern of taking a bad, lazy, dishonest “all sides bad” approach to moderation by locking entire threads rather than isolating bad actors and punishing them accordingly.

Like fuck, sure, the official Discord is the worst and most disgusting abusive horrorhouse ever imagined for a Discord community, that totally kills the Unturned community, and yet Nelson endorsed it as the official community anyway.

Look Nelson, no shit on you, but if its gonna take this long to hand-craft a perfect Unturned II you might as well take some time to do some quality control and get the community cleaned up, man. Fuck dude.

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However to pop one last shot

At this timestamp, the guy does speak straight facts on server owner manipulation. Talking about how server owners straight up lie about how much it costs to run a server as an excuse for adding pay to win ranks that ruin the entire fucking experience for everyone on the server so a few snobbish kids can dominate.

Explaining how server hosters are incentivized and encouraged to “create 150$ ranks to sell to children”. Just straight manipulation.

edit:
Just popping this in because people might not know how genuinely cheap it is, to run servers.


The price is absurdly higher than it has to be. My machine is in use by me for atleast 6 hours of the day, so I wouldn’t count that towards the total “hosting” costs.

My machine also, definitely is not running at full load all day, every week, every month, for the entire year. Despite over-estimating by a shit ton, its still only 2$ a month per Unturned server.

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Okay, I agree with the Unturned community being awful, but was it really necessary to do what is called a “sneak diss” on me for something small that happened 2 years ago? The video doesn’t even highlight how Lu (Ex-Steam forum moderator) went insane and literally stalked my Steam profile when he got unmodded. Plus, there is plenty other worse stuff that is left out and is just instead replaced by filler of some RP server. I literally have nothing against you so please don’t go doing stuff like that. Either way nothing matters because with the sluggish development of Unturned 2, it appears the game is never coming out. Half Life 3 and Yandere Simulator have a bigger chance of being released, lol.

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I never said it was about you, it was about the moderators not dealing with far-right fascist content. I could care less who posted the content, if that makes sense. Everyone can change and I’m sure you have so again not supposed to be an attack on you.

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Hallel fuckin lujah rain making a decent point for once without the involvement of socialism or communism

Well except for the far right stuff, since I don’t see any posts or users relating to it. And as for lance he hasn’t actively tried to involve far right stuff into posts, and if he was a far right nazi or some shit idgf cause it’s his philosophy and he can believe what he wants.

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I figured out the same thing at one point, my server uses about 146 watts and could run as many servers as a 6-core CPU could handle. Individual cost definitely can be higher than some of these server hosts although your savings truly come into effect once you start running multiple servers at once. Now if only I had decent internet . . .

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Yeah I obviously don’t factor in internet costs, because we’re assuming if you’re home-hosting that you already have internet. You’d have internet whether or not you host, so I don’t see it as an expense.

Renting should only be an option if you live in the middle of nowhere with no good internet options, otherwise your internet should be capable of hosting atleast four full vanilla servers

(that is, last time I did the math on average internet speed in the US, versus how much internet is required for four servers, including that a family needs more internet for other things than server hosting)

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With where I’ve got my server set up the download speed is decent enough but upload is at best 2.5 megabits. I did run a test to see just how many people it could theoretically support but the other stuff on the network draws too much of that away.

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Since I actually care now to make an actual reply:

I’ve hosted like what, at least 5 unturned servers between 2016 to 2020 (I don’t play unturned anymore let alone host, only reason I’m here is to pity some of y’all who are eerily passionate in unturned 4.0 not gonna lie) and I’ve done a fair share of home hosting and third party hosting, and not gonna lie you not being honest when it comes to their differences.

If I ever chose to host again (which is never) I’d choose third party. It’s flat out better than doing it from home. The hardware is significantly better, the ping is better, the price isn’t expensive, it starts at as little as $7 a month, etc. I just can’t think of a single advantage home hosting has.

The only thing I could really cherish about home hosting was being able to fix technical issues myself… but a LOT of people would struggle with what I had to deal with.

Home hosting is also unsafe because you give out your IP to everyone… I’ve literally been DDoSed multiple times because of it.

I also found it significantly easier to promote and populate servers on third party hosts, due to better ping and hardware, lag was less of an issue and my server had better standings typically on the server list due to better ping. I was also forced into predicaments way too often between whether I wanted to update a Steam game or stream something, or if I wanted my players to suffer with ping based lag.

I could go on for days with all the issues with home hosting. I’ve home hosted servers for more than 2 years, and I would rather never host a server than home host. Although I would rather never host a server to begin with, but you get the point

The only times I would ever suggest someone hosts from home is:

  • they have literally no source of income and are a young teenager unable to get a job and have spare PCs

  • they only want a fuck-around casual server, a LAN server, etc

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I’ve been thinking of various server ideas based on various mineman srbrs for Unturned II. Getting mods on servers in Unturned is way easier so the various ideas in mineman srbrs are able to be implemented and executed better than in said srbrs.

Also, every game is going to be flawed to some extent it’s just how flawed the game is and does it make or break the game. Hopefully Unturned II is less flawed than Unturned. Also, I will say this about Unturned servers. It needs to be a middling ground between not too controlling and too little control.

Minecraft’s EULA according to various sources is too strict. Why do you think Hytale is being developed? The other extreme being Unturned having no EULA to begin with. Nelson needs to find the healthy Aristotelian virtue type middle ground to where it’s not with one extreme or another. It needs to be that there should be a light EULA that isn’t extremely controlling over the user base.

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Because Mojang doesn’t want fucks to make money off of their game. So in return, since Hypixel has already amassed millions of dollars by manipulating children, they’re making a game targetted for children where they can exclusively make all the money for themselves lol.

Even if you think my answers to these simple problems is “too extreme”, then that’s great and all - but Nelson hasn’t taken any steps at all. Nelson is on the opposite extreme of doing absolutely nothing to gaurantee a better server community for Unturned. So go ahead and find a “middle ground compromise”.

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You seem to be wanting to force Nelson into your demands of a “P2W free” Unturned with chokeholds on plug-in development which in reality, if 3.0 was ever like this, the game would’ve died ages ago

Let’s face it, if it wasn’t for Rocket this game would’ve been done and dusted years ago, it’s because of Rocket the game has never actually “died”. Rocket gave this game longevity. Nobody wants to constantly play vanilla 24/7, it’s not bad, it’s just repetitive. That’s why it’s dead in 2021. If there was no Rocket plug-in infested servers, the entire game would be dead. As much as I hate cliche boring creative servers or that escape for unturnov garbage, your suggestion of an EULA in place does absolutely nothing to server quality.

Use Arma 3 as an example. They have a pretty strict EULA that forbid P2W content in their servers. It even has a pretty limited backend for plugin development, and no monopolized plugin market. Probably would sound cool to you… except it’s not. There is a tremendous lack of servers, let alone high grade professionally hosted ones. The servers that do exist, often have poor inexperienced staff, amateur developers (since plugins have to be coded from scratch for each server due to a lack of a market for them) etc. Anomalies lie within the BIG name servers that make enough in donations to fund these… but the significant majority of servers don’t.

The reasons why 3.0 lasted so long are the things you want to make sure aren’t reintroduced to 4.0. I’m not sure if it’s whatever to do with your expressive socialist beliefs but trying to force people to play Unturned the way you think they should play it isn’t right.

You do a lot of projection and gaslighting to link P2W content and an open market for plugin development, to poor server quality and a poor game overall.

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I wouldn’t even be surprised if you had so much passion over anti-P2W simply over the fact that you were jealous over people’s source of income.

P2W has zero correlation to the games decline. So what people went and bought an Mk2 off some dumb server for $100?

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@ForeverBlue This, P2W is shit on it’s own and is a problem with individual servers not Unturned as a whole. P2W servers aren’t exactly filled with the most intelligent people on the planet (aka 7-12 year olds with their mom’s credit card number) to begin with and they won’t last long anyways with the exception of a few.

This was never my suggestion or stance.

I never suggested anything in regards to Server Plugins except make a Steam Workshop section for them.

I never said there was anything wrong with having a Plugin API developers can make plugins for.

:man_shrugging: eye of the beholder or something like that? But I imagine instead you don’t understand my stance.

Assuming you completely understand what I’m suggesting, then 4.0 doesn’t deserve to be popular if it can only exist off of the abuse and manipulation of the community/game.

my argument… on plugins… on the imperial plugins website… is that they’re monopolized…

even free-market folks would say that isn’t a free market…?

i dont know… how you got so lost…

to get political
but if I get political I'll get banned

damn guess I wont go there

I could get even more political on why hyper individualism, in for-profit economic systems, is used to justify why everything is the individuals fault, when thats definitely not the case -but I mean,

the problem here with the SDG forums is that you guys can bring up a topic that is essentially a political one without fear of consequences (free markets, regulated markets, EULA, P2W, economics, economic incentives) but if I begin to discuss or “argue” my point of view (an “extreme” one) on these issues, I’d get banned again for “politics”.

My closing argument on my SDG profile 7 months ago was that Political Discussion (economics, incentives, philosophy, addressing the bigger and root problems of things) belonged here, and they said otherwise. We cannot discuss P2W without going in the SDG moderator “nono zone” which is why I had to quit talking about it. You’d expect a forum - a place for discussion - would allow discussion, especially when its not illegal by any means - while you know, allowing fascist imagery may be illegal in some countries with extreme anti-hate laws.

At the end of the day I really don’t give a damn if you can’t understand my side of the solution for shitters coming into the community just to ruining the game/community for their own profit, because again, if I tried, I would just be banned again, and I appreciate having the ability to walk in here and post something every few months that can genuinely get people to think outside of the box.

And also, while P2W is apart of the “dark side” of Unturned, it isn’t worth talking about it in-depth here or arguments against it, because the moderators might try to take it as “off-topic” when it really isn’t.

So either way, I’m in a corner and cant discuss further on this subject. Hope you can understand.

actually rain you do that

yeah you bring this stuff up
i dont know a single topic made by someone other than you that has the following

the problem is you begin to bring socialism and communism into a topic. afterwards, you start pissing people off, then you get more political, and then you get banned.

no you can discuss P2W stuff here, just dont involve socialism or communism and think of simple solutions.

show us the fascists imagery, cause ive been on this forum for 3 years, constantly active here, and have not seen one post or user bring up fascism.

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off topic land is now.

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@pest It was ONE isolated example of someone using the yoke and arrows symbol in his profile pic. Apparently the Spanish Falangists used it as a symbol for their movement and has subsequently been appropriated. The symbol itself originated as symbols under Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella I of Castile and used by various monarchs as a symbol of Spanish unity.

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