The Nykorev and its balance issues

discussion
#1

The Nykorev in Unturned 3 is, to make it short, a horribly bad gun.

It is one of the higher tier guns, as it comes from the likes of deadzones, airdrops, and horde beacons. With the semi-recent changes to LMGs, the other two LMGs were changed to new roles effectively. The Hell’s Fury became a CQB monster with impressive durability, and a voracious appetite for ammunition. The Fury also gained a very small amount of vertical recoil to make it feel better to use, but that’s besides the point. The Dragonfang got chosen to be the raiding LMG of the bunch, a choice I personally didn’t agree with, but was well executed balance wise. The Dragonfang required high caliber ammunition, did low damage for a high caliber weapon, but still had relevance is PvP as its damage output is insane, if the user chose to throw away high caliber like that.

However, the Nykorev is a somewhat sad case. Before the rework LMGs were basically the poor PvP raiding machines. The Nykorev was relevant, in that niche role. The Nykorev received something like a durability buff and an accuracy buff, and that was about it. It was mentioned as to be a suppression LMGs, but it does not perform well in that role at all.

One thing suppression requires is the ability to fire for a long time. That is something the Nykorev can actually do rather well, the best out of every gun in the game. The Nykorev has a 200 round box, and with a rather slow firerate it takes 28 seconds to empty its magazine, and with adpative chambering, that time is 24 seconds.

That’s somewhat where the advantages end. While the Nykorev is a very durable gun, with a 15% chance to degrade, firing a whole box will wear the Nykorev on average about 30%. For a machinegun intended to suppress, this isn’t very good. Suppressing requires slinging out bullets just to make sure the enemy doesn’t peek for fear of getting hit, and when your gun starts losing damage about 2/3 the way through your second belt, there’s a bit of a problem.

The next thing about the Nykorev that’s poor is the recoil. The Nykorev has actually insane recoil, with 50% more vertical recoil and over 4x more horizontal recoil than the famous Maplestrike. This makes keeping the bullets on target quite difficult, and with the damage output the Nykorev has, (which I’ll get to in a second) this insane recoil is a bit of a slap in the face.

Now, the damage. A gun can have good damage output one of two ways in Unturned 3.0. It can have relatively low damage per shot, but fire incredibly fast, like the Banshee. The other way is to have a very low firerate but be rather punchy per shot, like the Hecate or the DMRs. All other guns can be found in the middle of this balance spectrum somewhere. ARs like the Maplestrike fall in the middle, and the Herstal and Kreigs are in the middle but closer to high damage low firerate. Some guns play with this balance more than others, like how the PDW has AR tier damage with SMG firerate, or the Grizzly with sniper rifle damage but DMR firerate. However, the Nykorev gets the butt end of the balance. It features SMG levels of damage with AR firerate. And with the poor durability for suppression, expect the damage to go lower and lower the longer the firefight goes on, if using the Nykorev to suppress.

For example, assuming a target wearing military tier armor, a Calling Card shreds the Nykorev in damage output.

Even a Cobra can kill faster than a Nykorev, and the Cobra can be found much much easier than a Nykorev ever could be.

Even more insulting, the Sportshot, a gun infamously known for being trash tier, if it was fully automatic, it would barely compare to the Nykorev, which just shows how low the damage output of the Nykorev is.

And when the Nykorev is compared against any AR it just makes you think, “why in the world would I ever use this gun?”

And that’s the Nykorev’s problem, it’s just not relevant. It’s a rare gun that’s a big and bulky SMG at best.

In Unturned 3.0, there is no suppression mechanic like there is in other milsims. The only suppression is threat of death, and with the Nykorev having such poor damage output, it has no suppression value. If somebody can pop out of their cover while being hammered by a Nykorev, and kill the Nykorev user faster with an AR, the Nykorev has no value.

However, the Nykorev could be made relevant again. Back to the damage output spectrum, I’m going to go more with higher damage lower firerate, but without touching firerate. The Nykorev’s ability to shoot non-stop for half a minute is a suppression advantage, and making it fire faster would hinder that.

A minor change I would do is to buff the Nykorev’s durability by changing the degrade chance from 15% to 10%. This would make it so only 20% durability would be lost per magazine. This would allow quite a bit more ammunition to be fired without the durability being moderately insane. After all, the gun is supposed to be suppressing, so it shouldn’t punish players for shooting a low, minus ammo.

Next is recoil. The recoil for the Nykorev is a bit ungoldly high, so I propose to tune that down a bit. This will make the gun more usable while not being recoiless.

Current:
Recoil_Min_X -4
Recoil_Min_Y 4
Recoil_Max_X 2
Recoil_Max_Y 6

Proposed:
Recoil_Min_X -2.5
Recoil_Min_Y 3
Recoil_Max_X 1
Recoil_Max_Y 4

And finally, damage. I propose the Nykorev be changed to 50 base damage to players. This is rather high to say the least. However, due to the Nykorev’s rather low firerate, its damage output is comparable to, even slightly greater then, ARs.

However, a point could be made that the Nykorev will become the new super AR, which is possible, but the low firerate means missing even one shot would cause damage output to plunge. And with 50 damage per shot, the Nyorkev would probably gain some suppression value. Each bullet would pack a punch, and getting hit by one would put that player out of the fight for a moment to heal up, or maybe even downright kill them.

Also, with 50 damage, the Nykorev would almost beat out the PDW, but it doesn’t quite do it. So the Nykorev won’t be some incredibly OP super gun if it had 50 damage per shot.

These changes to the Nykorev won’t have major change on the overall balance of Unturned 3.0, but it would also make one of the most painfully bad top-tier guns feel like it belongs there.

15 Likes
#2

Noice, I might take your idea into consideration & reality for the remodelled Nykorev I did months ago, with some changes maybe or idk. Could I do it & ofc it’ll come with a credit.

2 Likes
#3

Im not even going to bother reading this to agree with you

7 Likes
#4

I’ve never actually done an in-depth research on the Nykorev’s stats and factors, but now I realize why it’s pretty much the worst gun for horde beacons. I tried out the Dragonfang, Augewehr, Nightraider and Maplestrike, and all of them yielded higher kill counts than the Nykorev. (I had a pretty big group, so of course we were all competing) Thank you for posting this, I may try to fix it with a mod if possible.

#5

Ah, yes. The classic Vilespring gun meta analysis, been a long time since we last had one of these :slight_smile:

I think all of the points are pretty solid here, and the proposed solution is super simple to execute.

One thing I’d like to note is that even if the Nykorev surpassed ARs in most stats, its slow equip time and reload coupled with slightly difficult performance at range would make it a cautious choice in any tactical situation. Well done!

6 Likes
#6

In that case, I guess the Nykorev lost because its recoil is higher than all the other guns and it fires slower than the Dragonfang.

Against zombies, all those guns you listed do 99 damage, so it’s all recoil and firerate when it’s PvE.

2 Likes
#7

Great in-depth solution to make Nykyorev not ‘primary 200 round smg’ :griefer:

2 Likes
#8

eggs dee wall of text amirite?

But seriously, balance is a huge number juggling game. I wish it could be easier and more entertaining to read, but it just has to be “This is what it is, this is why it’s bad. This is what I think it should be, and this is why. Data. Data. Data.”

I don’t blame you one bit.

3 Likes
#9

I want to make a “The Peacemaker and its balance issues” now.
Good read, I agree with most things here, the gun fucking sucks in it’s current state and spawn tables haven’t been changed to reflect that, meaning it still spawns rarely, yet its terrible at everything it does.

#10

I actually disagree to some degree.

The Peacemaker isn’t the best SMG, but it’s alright. Most SMGs are like automatic pistols, as intended. They’re lower tier guns for sure, and that’s where they fit in balance.

Now the Peacemaker, it compares quite nicely to the relevant SMGs, with the exceptions being like the Banshee and the Scalar. The peacemaker is a bit low, but there needs to be a bottom tier to a weapon class. And it’s not even that far off from the other SMGs.

1 Like
#11

To me the Peacemaker is pretty much the only balanced gun (well minus the bows and most of the semi-pistols), in a game full of unbalanced guns.
Even the Viper manages to out class it.

#12

I disagree, as well data.

Let’s deal with the peacemaker another day though.

3 Likes
#13

Alright. Back to the Nykorev.

#14

I feel like gun balancing was never a big deal in the unturned community. Yes - some guns are overpowered and some are underpowered but it seems like no one really cared too much about it.
I think we should be more open with our thoughts about guns for Unturned II and its future.
I am planning on uploading videos on Unturned II to basically all changes to keep my viewers updated. I think it would be nice to have polls on the videos regarding gun balances for example. A good way to get a feedback from the ones that arent active on forums or somewhere else.

1 Like
#15

I wouldn’t say no one cared. Nykorev is a shadow of its former self now, You can’t tell me that it’s not a big deal that the only non-military LMG has been nerfed into the ground and is no longer even capable of what LMGs are ment, or at least good at, to do in this game, raid.

1 Like
#16

I havent played Unturned for a few months now but I still remember the nerf. LMGs are pretty much useless for any situation but raiding. Like no one uses them for pvp ever. I remember this one time I was in shock when I saw someone shooting zombies using nykorev (before its nerf). What I ment by “no one really cared to much about it” is that the majority of Unturned players just took it how it is. They just play it without really trying to get any weapons buffed or nerfed. I have spend hours and hours reading through all my youtube comments over the years and I barely saw anyone complaining about gun balancing. There was also barely any gun balancing in the past year. Theres a bunch of guns that would need to be balanced but it seems like the typical unturned player cares more about new maps or new guns. I think making sure to talk about gun balancing in the future and making it more of a topic will help Nelson to figure out on how to balance things. In most games guns are getting nerfed or buffed pretty frequently so the meta always changes and its always nice to have a change. Nowadays its Maplestrike with Honeybadger (PDW ewww).

2 Likes
#17

I guess you would know better than I would, since you managed to make a carrier out of what the Nykorev was good for.

1 Like
#18

That makes sense.

I have toyed with the idea of changing the game balance as a whole a bit, mostly for increasing MTTKs to make combat a bit more entertaining.

Maybe a reason why there’s no talk about balance is because people have decided that balance passes never really come as well, they just haven’t, minus the LMG changes.

But, you have more interaction with the community than I ever did. You might be able to recall when the playerbase stopped caring about balance because balance changes are unheard of for the most part.

3 Likes
#19

Its so fucking long.

#20

Did you just imply that Unturned is a milsim?

I laughed at that far longer then I should have.