The subtle problem of Abuse - Official Servers

it sounds like you don’t want this idea and you don’t have an actual good point against it

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It’s the trolley problem all over again. Do you:

  1. Let one player ruin the whole experience for everyone else on the server and no staff to step in if they were to bypass the anticheat (TF2 is a good example. VAC always gets hackers in the end but I’ve seen accounts blatantly cheat and get reported many times but it was still undetected by VAC at that moment.)

or

  1. Give players staff roles and open up the possibility of them abusing powers

Both choices suck, it just matters which is going to have the most impact in the long run, and it’s impossible to tell since there’s so many variables. I’d prefer Nelson to do as he pleases, and so far that seems to be to implement official servers. Even without staff, harassment is still going to happen, would I love to eliminate that? Of course, but acting like server staff are the only ones doing this is crazy.

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I’m glad we have staff in the forum to set things in order, and those staff can negotiate problems when it occurs like civilized human being.

Likewise, I believe there’s nothing wrong with official server staff. I don’t get the paranoia of reputation damage this topic is all about.

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Tbh, I think nelson will choose the mods, yarr and Molt. And here’s why I think. They are never biased. Even when users here want them to be on their side because of something the suspect did that is shown and proven with facts, those 2 are never biased. They just wait for an action that goes against the rules here. Those suspect’s accounts are never deleted unless they commit something bad here. Too confusing: yarr and Molt are never biased, and take action if something goes against the rules here.

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A lot of the world is ‘democratic’ yet climate change is still a big problem. Does that mean its the peoples fault?

The short answer is no. Indirect democracy and such are flawed. Even if you made the system ‘democratic’ these moderators would function as de-facto representatives. Sure, you could “vote” someone in, and “vote” someone out, but the entire situation does not revolve around their character, rather the entire idea being fundamentally flawed.

This is ridiculous. Theres not going to be 7 staff members on all the time on the same server, and if someone is truly hacking they need to be punished on the spot, no time for some vote.

You’re explaining a system very much like Rocketmod Observatory where individual servers would ban someone, send evidence to Observatory proving they’re an hacker, then let Observatory players vote if they’re guilty or innocent. This process is too slow and is on a very individual server level, while there might be way more than one Official server.

Sure, you can present it like a trolley problem, but thats a False Dilemma logical fallacy. You present only two options like they are the only ones. There are plenty of other options, including but not limited to simply having no official servers.

cool

I think you didn’t even read the post.

lol

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Brah the problem you talk about is so stupid, sure admins abuse a little. But it happens on all servers. Also racists and whatever probably won’t be admins. And if they are how can you tell race through a video game.
I don’t care if the admin spawns in vehicles and loot. It’s more for me to take.

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Firing up the time machine as we speak.

and that is all anyone can say against this post.

In all seriousness though, the moderation tools and moderator’s logs should provide enough evidence that when someone (whether they have admin privileges or not) does something wrong it can be addressed, and so any defamatory claims can be destroyed with facts and logic disproven.

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Assuming the logs are just as much as UT3, then we can assume logs are not solid evidence to prove someone is abusing, but they could be abusing. Theres tons of things that are not logged that could be abusive. Have you ever seen a server log?

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No, atleast not from Unturned II.

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bro just have mods for mods to make sure the mods aren’t breaking rules

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You’ve become the very thing you swore to destroy

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we should get a mod to supervise Nelson :sunglasses:

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In my opinion, you could have just cut the entire topic down to a single paragraph.

The topic revolves around official server mods having a correlation to Unturned II’s review/rating by players. Everything else are every type of game server’s potential problems, which I assume everyone is familiar with.

To be honest there’s not much to tackle here. This feels more of a reminder with unnecessary fillers all over.

Not saying the thread is bad, and I’m not saying it is good either. But you could have cut it down to a single paragraph.

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Staff won’t harass anyone falsely reported.

No need to jump the gun. Theres plenty of other implications that I thought were so obvious that I didnt need to say them, including but not limited to

  • Players distrusting staff - thus “disrespecting” them, going against them, or not reporting things against the rules to them. Have you ever seen real life? In some parts of the world, people in the streets cheer as the detained literally run away from being nearly handcuffed
  • Players not buying the official pass due to rumors or legitimate abuse You understand people go on the Steam forum almost weekly to ask if the “Unturned Gold Upgrade” is worth it? Imagine that, except more frequently, except the replies are negative and about abuse.
  • Entire groups, clans and factions leaving official servers due to interpreted abuse, or just anyone in general
  • Overall less sales, players may not buy cosmetics or whatever is planned Surely there will be more than the ‘Official Server Pass’ to buy, because the pass itself is used to pay off the server rent costs. The server pass does not generate direct revenue for Nelson, its just a closed-loop system.

Well thats why I called it a “sublte problem” since nobody seemingly talks about it, or they know but dont care. :man_shrugging:

Better a more explained and thought out post with a good foundation rather than a crappy one. If I did the opposite, you would’ve just called me out for the exact opposite. I guess I can’t win, huh?

Staff will harass no matter what. And they will harass whoever is supposedly cheating whether you believe or not. Their process of checking if someone is hacking is in itself harassment.

For an example, thats like saying the TSA (whom if you dont know are the agents who search people at American airports) don’t harass people unless they find something suspicious. Every single check is harassment and coercion.

Ontop of this your claim in itself is flawed with the belief that the staff, with their god-like powers, will know if a report is false. Staff will not know if a report is real, false, or in-between. If there is staff, they should treat all reports equally.

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And the topic revolves around official server staff and the game’s review/ratings. Your implications were already implied when you said
Imagine people writing negative reviews about the game because a staff member did xyz to this one players. Theres hundreds of ways a staff member could abuse and thousands of ways to make the game appear worse by writing related reviews (or, even worse, creating YT videos about) the abuse.

Subtle problem doesn’t imply or is a synonym to reminder for me. But that works, I guess? Your vocabulary.

No lol. I’ve already said it is just filler, I don’t think I’m letting anyone win or lose - again, the thread feels like a reminder, not a debate. The entire point of the thread revolves around official server staff and the game’s review rating. The filler doesn’t improve the thread at all in my opinion.
Keyword is filler if you haven’t caught it yet.

That’s a bold assumption coming from a server owner, but you do you. You’re the one with server experience here.

Agreed.

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So what’s your solution to the problem of hackers on official servers? Staff sending them a message saying ‘pwease don’t hack on our sewver’ and hoping for the best? Anticheats are flawed and don’t have a 100% success rate, look at VAC or BattlEye for example. A good friend of mine and former TF2 staff member on a server I later ran was secretly MaxBox’s right hand man for three years without getting caught by VAC or fellow staff. I’m not an expert on this but I can ask him for more info on the nuances of both cheats and anticheats since he’s an ex-pro hacker if you want.

If you want the best protection against people ruining the game for others, staff is essential. This of course has it’s own drawbacks and issues, but with proper vetting and training the worst of that could be avoided.

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Staff, provided that the developer implemented tools that would aid in server moderation + player analysis.

Not including them because of potential slander is just cowardly and of poor reasoning. A good staff team would be backed up by those with common sense, and they would bite the aggressor’s reputation if the person is notorious for anything.

But again I find this post like a reminder as well. Something to consider but not something to be addressed immediately since it hasn’t happened yet.

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Theres no need to solve a problem if you just prevent the problem entirely. Sorta like condoms’. :wink:

lol

insisting I dont have common sense? ad hominem alert.

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Thanks for agreeing :wink:

Well it’s obvious without me saying that even though I’m not talking about you at all.