Unturned 4.x - Concerns on Identity, Visual & Otherwise

So, admittedly, it took me some time to notice Unturned 4.x development underway and now I’m late to the party. That said, after watching some of the devlogs I think there’s some areas that are definitely headed in the right direction and others that I really believe aren’t. I’m going to focus on the second category today, because that’s the one that’s been bugging me this weekend.

To throw my two cents into the mix, the weapon models (well, models in general) are the single biggest thing I’ve seen that I think isn’t headed in the right direction (I’ve got reservations about high-resolution textures too, but I’ll wait to see how that turns out). I understand the intent: adding more details provides more possibility for interaction. However, in the process of adding this detail, the models have lost the minimalism they had before. Put simply: the models now include details that aren’t necessary for recognizing what the thing is supposed to be. I think this is a problem for a handful reasons that have doubtlessly already been expressed, but I’ll collect together here (hey, it’s my manifesto, and I can’t be asked to necro someone else’s!).

Higher-detail models and textures will somewhat increase development time. I’m assuming based on the direction 4.X seems to be headed that Nelson’s already accepted this trade-off, but I would nevertheless like to present my opinion that “more” content is vastly superior to “prettier” content (especially given that prettier is subjective when it doesn’t match the entirety of the game, as mentioned in my first point).

Most worryingly to me, it weakens the visual identity of the game. Unturned has previously been a low-poly game, and though these models are still technically low-poly, they are high-poly enough that they create a stark contrast between gun- and player-model (and the shell casings). It’s somewhat amusing that the firearms have more organic shapes than the stark edges of the player-models, but I don’t think it fits. One solution could be to improve the polycount of the player model, but it’d take a smarter man than I to accomplish this without slipping straight into the uncanny valley, and it doesn’t look like that’s the plan based on the reading I’ve completed before this point.

“But Mourne,” I can hear in response, “It’s just visuals! Good gameplay doesn’t come from visuals!” To which I’d agree (of course I do–it’s why I’ve been so engaged by the minimalist presentation of Unturned 2.x and 3.x). I’d argue, however, that this change to visuals is important on a deeper level because they represent an evolution to Unturned’s design philosophy. My personal opinion is that a tremendous amount of Unturned’s charm comes from how it embraces its limitations and makes them a strength. This move toward higher-fidelity designs seems, to be blunt, to threaten to make the game more generic. My greatest worry is that this visual change represents a shift in mindset; that Unturned is going from taking an inventive and unique approach to presenting itself to a more generic and less interesting standard. My primary fear isn’t the visuals themselves, but that the mindset that leads to the creation of such visuals might reduce the game’s distinctness. Unturned isn’t DayZ, H1Z1, or any number of existing “realistic” zombie-survival-stroke-free-for-all-shooters out there that already do their best to capture high-poly, high-texture realism. It could try to be, but I don’t think it should.

I may be totally wrong. Perhaps the plan has always been to increase the level of detail in the game-world over time. Developing a game as a one-person team is daunting stuff, and I think a lot of Unturned’s minimalism originated from a totally pragmatic desire to not make things more complicated than they needed to be. If this is the case, I’d love to hear it.

But for now, I don’t see what the increased detail adds–and it seems to risk a lot of what I’ve come to love. Discuss!

They’re still minimal and in the Unturned style, just with more polygons, really.

Which unnecessary details irk you specifically? I can think of a few you might mean, but I’m not sure.

Quality over quantity. Nelson has zero intentions of making all lot of low-quality content when he can make more enjoyable content.

I disagree. Clothing definitely adds quite a bit to the player model, and the player model itself is different than in version 3. Unless you’re going to run around in the nude all the time I don’t think it’s going to contrast all that much.

I get this is a joke, but most people really prefer that Unturned not lose its art style, which most people really feel it hasn’t. Wrong community for that, imo.

What about the art style makes you feel that the game is becoming more generic? The game is still in the Unturned art style, after all, and isn’t trying to eventually replicate Arma 3 gun models and such. Game mechanic wise, there are still distinct differences between it and things like DayZ and H1Z1.

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Personally I like the style 4.0 is going in. The playerbase doesn’t really seem concerned. It’s about time that Unturned’s style got a bit more detailed. And it still has the charm that Unturned’s artstyle has. A blocky yet detailed model. And I don’t believe that it’s going to impact Nelson’s development time very much. Sure, he might spend an extra hour finishing up the details, but would it matter?

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the world is always looking for change

dayz is not good because it is defective (bugg, lag, perma alpha)
h1zy (survival suck, base suks)
unturned It is still funny to play and beautiful
to 4.0 is more detailed but is still simplistic.
SEE?downloadVS434110-DayZHeader

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Back in the day, I remember a dev post in which Nelson described the art style he used to approach modelling; most specifically an absence of round shapes–I believe the highest face count he used was 20-sided? It was a long time ago. Anyway, one of the items that was notably missing from that was any discussion of the intricacy of the models. How small does a shape have to be before it’s captured in the texture rather than the model?

I don’t want to misrepresent your argument, but if this weapon is in the style of Unturned, why would we be able to immediately pick it out from a selection of the 3.x models?

To use an early version of the M4A1 / “Eaglefire” as an example…

The Picatinny rails are modeled instead of textured. The trigger and action get a pass for being interactable. The fire-selector might as well, but I question how much it really adds.

You say you took my statement “Good gameplay doesn’t come from visuals!” to be a joke, but I was entirely serious. Visuals are secondary to quality, which in my opinion is served by a wide variety of content. I would rather have more uglier things than fewer prettier things.

The posts I checked up on still had rectangles for arms. Or, put another way: a human ear is quite a bit larger than an M4A1’s fire selector. Why is one represented in the model while the other is not? It’s because I can’t see the pattern that the increased detail feels like a departure from the style of the older models.

Well, to rephrase my above statement… I don’t see what it adds to the experience. Even if you’re not convinced by my position that it’s visually inconsistent with the previous style, I see little benefit to the proposed revisions (and a worrying possibility of getting lost in the thickets of visual fidelity).

There’s no accounting for taste, of course, and I hardly think changing the aesthetics is going to “ruin the game” or nonsense like that. But changes like this can start an evolution down a new path–and I think we’re already seeing it with some of the increased granularity Nelson was discussing in Devlog 006.

I’m not sure if this is a refusal of change or just the irritation of inconsistency.

Unless I’m missing the message from this concern post. I’m aware that people find it odd with the art style of the whole game vs the player models, but it being ‘Out of place’ is subjective of how you see an art style and what kind of standard (If such exists) is to be followed

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j mourne It has phobia of change.

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Ha! Well, yes, I’d be lying if I didn’t admit I have a fondness for the existing models. With luck, the new ones will grow on me with time, because despite the effort I’ve spent presenting my concerns, I’m not under the illusion that any of these changes are going to be reverted.

And true enough, one could argue that the existing 3.x models are out of place compared to the 3.x player models. It still leaves the question of why higher-poly models are a priority.

My personal belief is that it represents a shift in Nelson’s design philosophy toward granular detail. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the new models have nearly double the attachment points…

Or that we’re now dealing with equipment providing a bevy of modifiers that interact with one another…

It’s my belief that all of these changes are coming from a related design approach, one that I’m not sure I’ll ultimately like. The argument I was hinting at but hadn’t stated is that all this increased detail and realism is only needed if the game itself is going to focus more heavily on detail and realism. Otherwise, why waste the time on these models?

Whether or not that style of gameplay is something you favor is a personal preference. I do think it’s safe to say that stats and the accumulation of them has a tendency to foster competition and metagaming as people attempt to figure out the best approaches. I also think it’s an ironically unrealistic conceit, since so many of these things really only boil down to personal preference in reality.

Regardless, lo; it seems the game is indeed going to feature a lot more modifiers and statistics on gear. That’s why I think this is a topic greater than just visual identity and preferences.

And so we come to…

Which is why I’m expressing my concerns. I don’t pretend to represent anyone other than myself with this, so judge based on the strength of my arguments. Hey, I could be wrong. Heck, I’d like to be wrong.

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Hm I get the message now. Haven’t thought about linking each aspect of the game and looking for redundancies. Might get back to this post

Your mindset is pretty much like Molt (There better not be any more clones of him…)

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the new mode of play raises our interest
4.0 if the game were simplistic as 3.0 and unrealistic why nelson would have changed the platform?
it’s a madness to copy identical a game from one platform to another
3.0 same 4.0
download

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The switch from Unity to Unreal is just a way to rework the entire code so that optimization can be first done before the core game is established. Something which was near-impossible in post-beta 3.0

The reason for choosing Unreal is unknown, but likely due to constraints/finding more possibilities.

Although that wasn’t the point of this topic.

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A good point. Free-to-play games live and die by their ability to maintain long-term interest, which is fostered by a constant stream of new content. This is the reason I believe Nelson might be faced with a temptation to make Unturned more “generic” as I call it. The majority of mods on the Steam workshop certainly don’t have my qualms about out-of-place high-poly models, and the closer Unturned gets to other survival games, the more he can draw players from those titles.

Reasons I’d love to see a major update would be engine optimization…

…stole the words from my mouth. Engine optimization is one of the big limiters on the current game. I’d also love to see more and larger maps alongside new zones and equipment. In short, I don’t want new; I love what’s already here. I’d love more of it.

I don’t begrudge the engine rework because my machine really oughtn’t struggle to hit 60 FPS in a game this complex. But the art changes, and the hypothetical shift in design philosophy they may represent, seem unnecessary to me. At best, they’re a use of time that would be better spent in designing “more.” At worst, it might be Unturned heading off in a new direction without any clear reason to need to do so.

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i just wanna back up for a second to

the fire selector DOES work, as shown here. also, have you ever SEEN textured picatinny rails? because my god, they are actually disgusting. like, they physically hurt to look at. look at 2.0’s maplestrike for an example.

Because it’s not just the version 3 Unturned style, it’s that and improved upon it. Similar to how Classic further refined and improved upon Antique’s art style, and Unturned 3 refined and improved Classic’s. They’re different games, not just an update, so even from an aesthetic standpoint it helps differentiate the two directions the games are going. The “casual” nature of Unturned 3 versus the “darker” nature of version 4.

Btw this image is actually outdated by quite a bit. The model has changed two or three times since that image based on community feedback.

Rails would look ugly if textured, which I’d say they just shouldn’t be at that point, but rail systems are just as important in version 4 as calibers are. The Picatinny rail system is just one of the few planned rail systems in 4.

The trigger (which I don’t actually know if it moves) and the charging handle are probably the least beneficial to do anything. They’re both just really pretty aesthetics.

The fire selector is probably my favorite thing conceptually though, since it can theoretically actually be useful if you were to play without a HUD (either by choice or server difficulty).

I wouldn’t when prettier is also implying more fulfilling and expansive content and uglier is implying less things to do in the game. Half of Unturned 3’s content is quite redundant and most players won’t ever touch them.

There’s no inter-connectivity between any of the mechanics in 3, and improving the graphics at the same time helps solidify that choice, especially when those improved graphics are being used in combination with gameplay elements or to further the game’s narrative/ambiance/environment.

“Ugly” can and will subtract from the experience of a “good” game. There’s a difference between ugly and low-poly (or pixel art / retro / 8-bit / etc.). Unturned 3 is low-poly (and kinda pretty imo). Unturned 4 is low-poly and still pretty pretty.

The player model is by far the most symbolic model of any. You don’t have to add ears (for example) to “improve” a model. Not only is the newer model sleeker with more appropriate hitboxes, it also includes improved animations and meshed clothing, both of which do have what you may straight-up “increased detail,” and not just “improved detail.”

You’re doing good so far, keep reading!

Some people just really like armatures in their guns, and jiggle bones in clothing. :man_shrugging: For people who want to play because the game also just looks beautiful, I couldn’t blame them.

Popular community suggestion for more modular guns, similar to Escape From Tarkov. Now, when you say “nearly double” there’s nine “attachment” slots in total. 3 of them are just different types of sight attachment slots. 3 of them are the actual gun components (stocks, barrels, and handguards (handguards being relevant to rail systems)), and the last 4 are the ones from Unturned 3.

Unturned 3 had 4 attachment slots, and Classic had 3 attachments slots.

Unturned 4 is a base slate that lets Nelson do a lot of the stuff the community (but mostly he himself) wanted in a/the game but couldn’t.

This has been requested for a long time too. It’s really just opening the game up to modding more than anything though, by letting any stat be modifiable. This is something that would’ve been liked for Unturned 3 (such as stamina being regenerated faster via Adrenaline, or have a speed boost) but hasn’t been possible, and in some scenarios feasible.

The ability stats shown thus far really don’t add that much new beyond what Unturned 3 had, besides RPS per firing mode and aiming movement speed (something requested for a while to help balance PvP, add “realism,” and make the Hell’s Fury less silly).

Why not take the time to improve the art style to your own personal standards when you’re given the chance to start over again? Unturned 3 has terrible art style inconsistencies with everything added post-Russia, and even had several model redesigns throughout the public release of the game.

Not only does starting now reduce the awkwardness later, it also lets Nelson take the time to standardize everything. Let windows have proper fortifications that don’t cover the entire space, for example. Let all rail systems be the same size. Let all buildings function properly with player-made buildables, or allow for breakable glass, etc.

Taking the time now to improve the art style doesn’t mean it’s the only thing Nelson is doing. It makes sense because everything else is getting improved around it.


But yes, the game is moving away from the casual–hardcore hybrid that is Unturned 3 in favor of the more hardcore game aspects Nelson (and half of the community) have wanted for a while. This notably includes features being more “complex,” important, and interconnected; and a darker atmosphere. People aren’t concerned because it’s stuff they’ve asked for, stuff Nelson has wanted to do, and stuff that makes the game go in the darker atmospheric and more hardcore direction they’ve wanted it to go. Those who believe they’d prefer Unturned 3’s happier and brighter atmosphere (think Hawaii) have decided to just stick to Unturned 3.

It’s like more than just aesthetic value (in the sense that it’s related to game mechanics), but also really important to aesthetic value (in the sense that it helps further the game’s atmosphere). Good world-building is fun stuff, and something a lot of people here seem to enjoy in games like this nowadays. (Unturned 3 was kinda literally all over the place, especially since it wasn’t even originally planned to be a separate game originally.) Some people don’t really care for the world-building or ambiance of a game. That’s fine and all if you come just for the game’s mechanics, but Unturned has never just been about the gameplay (not that it isn’t any less important in 4 though, quite the contrary).

Nelson also has a lot of additional time for that stuff anyways, with more experience under his belt and a better core framework. I like to think of textile variations and randomized placement for roof/window objects specifically, since those are really a one-time commitment and you’re done for any assets you make in the future.

Unturned 3 and Classic have always been really restricted in what they could do, mostly due to poor choices when first creating the core infrastructure of the game and rushing to get constant content updates out. Should we ask ourselves if this is what Nelson had always intended for the game? Surely based on Reddit AMAs and old Trellos and the original concepts for new content posted in update logs we’d be able to assume so.

Congrats’ on making it to the end. But, yeah. I’m not personally concerned with the more refined art style because it helps go in the more hardcore direction I (and others) have been waiting for the game to be able to go for a while now.

Why did this make me think of the fox/wolf ears people wear sometimes?

Because you’re secretly a furry.

What no. NEVER!

NOPE NADA NEIN! Just no.

While I can’t really say I’m convinced this is the direction I’d like to see the game go, you have convinced me that it’s the direction the majority of players would like to see. Thank you for the lively debate.

Embrace the truth! Don’t be ashamed of who you are! :wink:

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No. Xd I will never accept it xd
(Also Im starting to worry cause a lot of people are saying so. T-T I just wanna be a normal person doe T-T)