Guns Randomization

Unturned II U4 Discussion
1

Hello there,

Just thought of this while reading some suggestions on Discord while playing Borderlands.
Everyone is asking for more so I suppose people think that there is not enough guns, but I’m part of those who think there is already enough guns added to the game so, how about a stat system with a randomizer ?

Let me explain :

Imagine we have a standard Zubeknakov, it’s nice, shiny and all, but it’s only able to deal 40 damage and isn’t very accurate. So basically the stats are the following :

STAT#1 Damage 24~44 (I’m using the 0,6 leg-arms and the 1.1 head damage multiplier)
STAT#2 Accuracy 60%
STAT#3 Fire Rate 2 (It’s just a random number for the example)
STAT#4 Recoil 0.2 (Let’s say 1 is going to make you look at the sky after one shot, so since the fire rate is
pretty high, the gun recoil is bigger)
STAT#5 Recoil Multiplier (If in safety) 0 (If in single shot) 0.5 (If in Burst) 1,1 (If in Auto) 1.5
STAT#6 Weight 3kg (The heavier it is, the slower you’ll walk while holding it and the more time it will take to
scope, because you can aim faster with a gun than an assault rifle)

So we got all those 6 stats, for the standard Zubeknakov, now imagine you like to play more as a sharpshooter dood waiting in a bush to kill all these idiots wanting to loot your little military base full of freshly spawned turneds, you would rather have a Zubeknakov whit those stats :

STAT#1 Damage 21~39
STAT#2 Accuracy 85%
STAT#3 Fire Rate 1
STAT#4 Recoil 0.15
STAT#5 Recoil Multiplier 0 ~ 0.5 ~ 1,1 ~ 1.5
STAT#6 Weight 3,5kg

As you can see, this one does a lot less damage but is more accurate with a reduced fire rate implying less recoil, but since it’s the same weapon, we are keeping the recoil multiplier, but the weight is more important since a more accurate gun implies that this Zubeknakov has a slightly longer barrel that minimizes the damage of the bullet (explaining why there is lower damages) and less recoil implies that the weight of the gun is slightly higher.

Now imagine that you have one gun variety for each kind of gameplay, we covered the balanced and the sharpshooter ones, but you could also create one for the players who like to rush, with less accuracy and a bigger fire rate or one focusing on how many bullets are shots with a bigger fire rate, a slightly bigger recoil but a lighter weapon, any weapons you want as long as it’s balanced.

The only drawback I can think of is that it’ll need more guns 3D model with some slight changes for each type of gun

Also, with a randomizer system like this you could be able to find the type of gun you want to play with, but that implies that you also couldn’t find it, since there would be many types for one gun, the type you’re looking for could spawn when you’re looting but it’s not 100% guarantee.

Just to point out the fact that a system like this one could probably fulfill the PvP player expectation without adding any more gun that would totally ruin the survival aspect.

Just tell me what you think about it and don’t start judging my writing like in my previous post x)

Anyway, thanks for reading !

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IMO a robust customization system would make randomized stats irrelevant.

Movement penalties that are only applied when the weapon is equipped are really stupid.

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Are you forced to move slower when you’re carrying you backpack in your hands or on your back ?
That’s not stupid, and if you think so then explain why…

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I don’t wear a backpack on my back because it allows me to move faster, I do it because holding it in my hands would quickly tire the appendages I use to manipulate objects. Unless I’m trying to climb, vault, scramble, rappel, crawl, or otherwise use my hands for movement, my movement speed and cardiorespiratory endurance are unaffected by whether or not an object is in my hands or on my back. Even if it were realistic, that wouldn’t make it well balanced.

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Whether something is on your back or in your arms, it’s still on you.

The fact simply is that if there is a movement debuff, it should be from bearing the weight of the item itself and not just because you’re holding it in your hands.

Either way due to how well the already implemented stat system works, I don’t think adding random stats is a good idea.

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This topic came up once before and was shot down. I see no reason for that to change here.

Random stats serve no place here in Unturned. This isn’t some weird RPG where you can find an Eaglefire with +10 damage or something.

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The problems with this are as follows

  1. It would make guns to samey, with no gun having the exact same stat, even if its straight up the same gun, it would make new guns be reskins for most guns, as if two similar guns (think zubek and maple in unturned 3.0) could by luck be the exact same, or atleast similar. I know in your last tid bit you say that this is a good thing, as you would need less guns in the game, but lack of content doesnt make a game “survival.” The only actual downsides to adding a fairly large (To an extent, Im not saying I want weird forgotten history guns or guns from countries the map isnt based in) collection of weapons is guns feeling samey, as there are to many guns that are a middle ground between other guns, and wasting time that could be better spent on creating actual gameplay elements.
  2. Lowers skill ceiling- If recoil is differs based on what gun you find, it would make it impossible to get used to recoil, making a really big chunk of gunplay not require skill, because you would never be able to compensate for recoil unless you have been using the exact same gun for a long time.
  3. Would mess up shots to kill- In unturned 3.0 shots to kill is pretty good in retrospect, with the main imbalance being how low the recoil is. If a gun has say, 49 damage and is a 3 shot headshot kill, you could randomly find one with 50 that is a 2 shot kill, destroying the games gun fight balance. (This is assuming 4s shots to kill is kinda the same)
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Don’t think that randomized stats are a good addition, it would enforce people to go around every inch of the map so they can get a “normal” zubeknakov and it would make the game more RNG-oriented, which has always been a big no-no in games.
I had this sort of talk with another guy on the forums, instead of having stats that suit other roles better, why not have an AR-15 that spawns with a longer barrel, bipod, better stock and some form of scope already attached to it on spawn, like a Designated Marksman Rifle or just DMR. After that, you can find another AR-15, but this time configured differently. That would also make farming for attachments less of a grind, due to the attachments you MAY find on a weapon that’s already spawned. And you can always remove those attachments, so you won’t be forced to engage in CQC with an ACOG permanently attached to your rifle.

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Adding an RNG element to weapon stats seems kinda lame and unrealistic,I mean that’s what attachments are there for,making your gun fit your playstyle.

And overall,adding this system and an in depth customization would just be too much for Nelson to implement,and too much for us to handle.

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Not really imo.

Kinda makes sense to penalise movement for when you’re holding a minigun but not when you aren’t.

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The in depth weapon customization system nelson wants to add to this game would kind of do this if you want to shoot people from a distance you put diferent stuff on your gun and that way you cant just get an “ultimate” adition to your gun that works very well in all situations

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You holding a minigun on a shoulder strap or in a backpack shouldn’t magically and instantaneously remove the movement penalty of holding it in your hand. That just creates an annoying meta of constantly swapping weapons. To really balance a minigun in an intuitive, fair, and enjoyable way it can’t just be an ordinary shoulder arm that just slows you down a bit when it’s in your hands. You could have movement penalties based on the total weight you’re carrying. You could require the minigun to be supported by a gun mount or have the bipod deployed. If you absolutely felt the need to have penalties for holding the weapon itself or wanted to make a game as realistic as possible, you could have a mechanic for the arms gradually getting tired and causing penalties like increased scope sway and recoil, reduced melee speed and damage, reduced movement and vaulting speeds, or whatever debuffs you want, but they would have to be applied and removed gradually, not just arbitrarily, instantaneously, completely, binarily applied and removed by swapping the weapon between the hands and the holster

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in irl its feels like less weight on your back then in your hands, its just logic

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This is only because it allows your arms a greater range of motion, which tricks your brain into thinking you’re moving faster.

Disregarding the almost negligible speed boost someone gets when they swing their arms as they run, you are still equally as slowed down if the minigun is on your back. After all, you are still carrying it. The movement-while-holding mechanic in games almost makes it as if the mass of the weapon magically ceases to exist when out of your view.

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Pretty much our backs are stronger then our hands and it feels lighter on our back rather then in our hands but it is still just as heavy and slows you down just as much

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That’s where you’re wrong because when you are holding it in your hand, you’re supporting it’s entire weight with your 2 arms and it’s tiring for both your arms and legs because the weight is attracting your body to the ground, when it’s on your back, the weight is distributed the long of your vertebral spine which is already stong enough to support the weight of your whole body, so it feel lighter because it’s less tiring which implies that your movements are less impacted by the weapon’ weight.

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You sound like you know nothing about physics.

Changing the center of mass doesn’t make you any lighter or faster. As I said, perfectly clear:

You feel faster, but that doesn’t make you any faster at all.

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You do move faster by swinging your arms like normal, just try running with your hands at your side, you will not be able to run as fast. Its another reason why handcuffs are so effective, you have terrible form while running without your arms, and over long periods can lead to pretty bad injuries to your shoulder blades. Source: 4 years of track/crosscountry

Luckily, guns are made to be ergonomic, and have plenty of grips and such that dont effect the speed you are running at at all, because your arms can still easily swing about letting you have decent form. If you were trying to carry a heavy box and run at the same time it would be a completely different story as the range of motion in your arms would be restricted.

If you really wanted to go to the logical extreme you could bring up the fact that using your upper body muscles diverts precious blood from your legs to your arms, so you would technically tire faster but I seriously doubt it would be noticeable, especially when you are probably carrying max a 20 pound gun.

If you actually wanted to add this out of balance thats fine (not really because as harvest said this would be annoying and further ambushers advantage), but dont try to bring “realism” in when its not noticeable in real life.

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Harvest’s initial post is basically my opinion on the subject. I don’t see a point for randomized stats, especially when the expanded attachment system exists.

Since the other conversation going on is about moving and speed, we should probably stop and actually think through this for a second so that we’re all a more-or-less on the same page about this.

Weight is weight. Even if you better support that weight, you’re still carrying it. Some of you are getting confused by this. You’re not “wrong,” but you’re skipping things in your reasoning.

You’re holding a sword. You aren’t faster when it’s sheathed. You can physically run at the same speed regardless of how you hold a sword, as long as it doesn’t physically block your legs. A sword sheathed on your back, however, frees up your hands/arms. Your arms are important for maintaining balance.

You may purposefully move slower when holding something so that you can more easily maintain your balance. You can, by all means, still run the same speed, you’re just more likely to lose your balance.

@anon67155151 brings in an interesting point, and although it has the same flaws as other posts arguing about movement penalties, it isn’t exactly wrong either. You can, by all means, run just as fast with your arms at your sides, or with them in handcuffs. You slow down, either by instinct or by intention, so you can maintain your balance. Leg cuffs are what you would use to limit somebody’s speed (as it restricts leg movement, and as a plus it causes balancing issues).

I’ve already discussed balance, however, and his more interesting point is about proper running form. The arm movement keeps your body balanced by counteracting your leg movement, which means you can move faster with less follow-up needed. By pumping your arms faster, you can make your legs instinctively move faster to balance it out. It’s far easier to hit a high speed if you’re running naturally, with proper form.

And then his point goes into injury caused by poor form. If it (poor form) happened often, then you would likely injure yourself. However, I don’t think it’s relevant to whether or not free arms makes you straight-up just run faster than you’re normally capable of doing, nor do I think it’d ever be relevant during the same sprint you’re using improper form in. You might be sore immediately after, or get injured in a sprint after consistently poor form over time, but I don’t think it’d be immediately impactful.

But I guess you can argue that movement penalties exclusive to something be held are realistic if we consider that our player character just doesn’t want to fall over. If something is awkward to hold, it’s going to be awkward to stay balanced while running, and thus carrying it on our backs would make it easier to move faster even though we still could’ve tried running that same speed while holding it.

What could be done is that there’s a multiplier to item weight when it’s held versus when it’s on your back, so that wearing a bomb suit slows you down more than just carrying a set of it, which would be nicer for gameplay imo.

EDIT: I should clarify that, unlike @anon67155151, I am not a cross-country/track runner. I’d run more if I wasn’t physically limited, but I definitely don’t have the same experience. I feel like I didn’t properly differentiate some things in my above explanation, but I’m trying to say that your speed is only literally limited by how freely your legs can move. Also, me using the bomb suit was a poor example because it likely does restrict movement.

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