I feel like I am not understanding KOS


#1

For the longest time I have seen KOS as a game design choice and not that of a player base issue, If the game is going to encourage it why wouldn’t you do it? Doesn’t matter who I am if the game basically makes me do it. I don’t understand the obsession with realism when it comes to KOS, Self defense or paranoia is a very real thing. IN a survival situation its me or you, I am not just gonna waltz up to someone and ask to team unless I HAVE a distinct advantage in case of them attacking me, Having another mouth to feed food and loot is just not worth that risk. I KOS because it means I get gear and loot and you don’t, Meaning I will survive longer. I generally dont see this as a problem and I am seeking out an argument that will help me understand why it is an “ISSUE.”

There have been many KOS threads but they all bring up the same dull arguments that either make no sense or just dont work. Shit, like not rewarding exp, or actively punishing the player for KOS, make no sense and would suck to have in a game like unturned.

Please someone help me out here, I am just trying to understand.


#2


#3

People are suggesting game designs that don’t incentivize killing players, which is the opposite of a game design that encourages it.

I don’t have a huge issue with KOS either, but part of it comes down to players wanting the game to not be a mil-sim. Some people feel that would necessitate reducing the number of PvP experiences that occur in favor of more PvE experiences.

The better suggestions (imo) do this by suggesting features that make the PvE experience better. Most of the suggestions (overall) on this forum are PvE-oriented.

At the same time, there’s loot progression. Loot progression is hard to design well, and depends on a lot of things. Map design is a notable influence on it, but PvP also impacts loot progression. So, people suggest things that aren’t inherently related to improving PvE, because killing someone is always going to reward you and there’s not really a way to prevent that, just discourage it.

Obviously, with groups/clans, loot progression is still going to weird per individual anyways. At that point, people have to realize that PvP allowing people to obtain loot easier/sooner isn’t a huge issue, as even PvE also does that.

So people shouldn’t focus on hurting the PvP experience (like some suggestions do), and continue to focus on improving the PvE experience. Trading, makeshift gear, clans/alliances that don’t encourage exclusivity, etc. Map design that separates alpha tribes from fresh spawns.

PvP/KOS is always going to be a thing. It is the player who decides that KOS is better for them as an individual than not. There are alternatives, and they can be profitable, but players play based on their preferred play-style. Some people just don’t trust others, or they enjoy the idea of just being a renegade bandit. That will happen regardless of PvE features.

But the issue people have is, basically, U3 didn’t have enough PvE mechanics, and PvP was more dominant. A few people think that hurting the PvP experience is necessary to improve the PvE experience.

It’s a backwards correlation of “because PvP/KOS, PvE failed.” It’d be better say “because too few PvE mechanics, people enjoyed PvP combat more.”


#4

KOS
Its an easy acronym

Kill
Our
Selves

KOS


#5

Thank you so much for the explanation! I think I understand now.


#6

no problem man :smiley:


#7

It’s not that people kos, it’s just that people want to have more pve experiences. If pvp in unturned was good, people wouldn’t be eager to fight to keep themselves entertained.
It’s just that I would like to be able to loot an area without worrying about getting shot every five minutes.
I feel like if the game was hard, and ammunition was rare, people wouldn’t waste bullets just to kill people. When they could trade for more.


#8

no people WOULD waste ammo to kill people if they see them as a viable option to obtain supplies/loot

which would be 99% of the time if the person your shooting is not naked


#9

its just a thing players do, its a way to survive and thrive, they do it to gain something and its just how the game works


#10

Some quick math. You have 10 bullets after lots of looting. It takes 7 bullets to kill the guy, plus you get shot and need to use 2 bandages and antibiotics. You get from the guy: torn up and damaged clothes, 3 bullets. And one bandage. You just lost loot. Had you traded. The other guy would have given you 10 bullets for food. And you would have 20 bullets. Instead of 6.
Just some math…
It would be better to trade with the guy or just leave him.


#11

Your entire example is thrown out the window if you consider the fact that you probably wouldnt shoot a guy for LOOT if they look like they dont have any? Swap this situation with a military base looting adventure, You pretty much need to kos there and you are almost 100% gonna gain from a kill.


#12

KOS has become a problem simply because there’s not proper PvE oriented gameplay: player carrying and skill capacities are pretty OP, medicals are OP, evironmental threats are a joke, crafting and building are both too simple, there are lots of guns with OP stats but absurdly simplified ammo, and the list goes on, so if we set players aside, survival on itself is really easy.

So what’s the result of that? Everyone killing to each other, rather than for loot or survival, they do for dominance or simply because they can. Endgame is pretty easy to achieve, so experienced players start giving af about loot and start hunting everyone down as a sport or keeping their position above the rest. Again: how is this a problem? Well, at least half (if not more) of the community has that mindset, so it went from being a survival game to become a silly lowpoly shooter. Killed when OP? No worries, get a weapon, kill some dudes and you’re back in the game.

Really disappointing if you ask me.


#13

its better to risk losing a few bullets then keeping him alive, he could be dangerous after all
Not everyone has the exact same loot either, your assuming this guy has this much loot were it could be more or less


#14

That’s the thing, what looks like they have loot in 4. Military clothing could be unpopular, as it might have poor cold protection. So civilian gear might be used. Essentially you won’t know what a geared player looks like. Also pvp could be more difficult in 4. Zombies could show up, a passing horde prehaps, your gun might break/ jam. Ect.