Loot Distribution

[anon24515308]

Ahem…

@anon24515308

If one city had nodes for every spawn table, then instead of players progressing further away from spawn and generally having no reason or opportunity to use top tier loot against nakeds (as in Russia) everyone would just rush towards and stay in this city hoping the random number gods generator would bless them with good loot before they get killed by a camper who randomly got better loot (as in Washington.)

@Lemmy

This is very much opinion based, I personally much prefer it this way, it’s why I think that Washington is the best balanced map in the game, and that 2.0 PEI was better than 3.0’s. I see having one major big PvP hub with all the supplies that both attract higher gear and lower gear players alike as a great benefit, cities also make for the most fun and varied combat.

Campers aren’t really a big issue, and usually easily spotted. It’s easy enough to sneak around in Seattle, so I don’t see it being an issue in a theoretically even larger city. The combination of verticality and clutter just makes it the best pvp experience.

Russia’s very strict loot tiering was one of it’s biggest downfalls, IMO, as it meant that there was no real reason to go south after getting high loot in the north besides killing fresh spawns, often without risk from other higher tier players.
Other maps, particularly washington, or 2.0 Pei solved this by having loot areas all over the place, with civilian location inbetween military and militia ones, and having combined spawn locations, like the evac center on washington, or the airport/burywood in 2.0.

It helps making the core gameplay loop of get gun > fight people > get base > get more gun and fights less obvious, and making us think less about our concrete reasons to go somewhere, and leads to more dynamic and organic player interaction and combat, since people of all gear types will be travelling somewhere along the same lines.

@TigerSurvivor

Lemmy:
This is very much opinion based, I personally much prefer it this way, it’s why I think that Washington is the best balanced map in the game, and that 2.0 PEI was better than 3.0’s. I see having one major big PvP hub with all the supplies that both attract higher gear and lower gear players alike as a great benefit, cities also make for the most fun and varied combat.

It’s an interesting point, but Unturned II will focus on survival and PvE. Not that it will end PvP, but in fact it will be greatly reduced as players will be more concerned with surviving the possible hordes than killing everyone else.

Lemmy:
Russia’s very strict loot tiering was one of it’s biggest downfalls, IMO, as it meant that there was no real reason to go south after getting high loot in the north besides killing fresh spawns, often without risk from other higher tier players.

In unturned II, personally I hope it’s like Russia, but with a much more Hardcore North part than the South part, you’ll also have better items, so when they get to a more hardcore region, players will have to retreat to a friendlier region, and as ammunition and weapons will be rarer, it may not be worth shooting and killing novice players, as it may lack ammunition to fend off the hordes of Turneds.
This is just a very simple example.

@Lemmy

you’ll also have better items, so when they get to a more hardcore region, players will have to retreat to a friendlier region, and as ammunition and weapons will be rarer, it may not be worth shooting and killing novice players, as it may lack ammunition to fend off the hordes of Turneds.

But experience has shown that that’s not true. Even with more challenging zombie hordes, killing a player is fun and takes just a few shots. This is something that is true in all zombie media as well, once players find out how to deal effectively with zombies, guns will be used against other players. Your idea sounds nice on paper, but really just won’t work, since especially with the loot tiering it will take less shots to kill someone, since they’ll have jack shit to shoot back, so you can afford to be more risky.

@anon67155151

I think that Washington is the best balanced map in the game, and that 2.0 PEI was better than 3.0’s. I see having one major big PvP hub with all the supplies that both attract higher gear and lower gear players alike as a great benefit

This is blatantly bad and unfun game design that leads to KOS because of how easy and rewarding it is as a freshspawn to kill geared players, restricts progression as you don’t have evenly geared players fighting, so you can’t guns that are stronger than other guns to a degree (3.0 is a good example of this) and in general is just a horrible idea.

@Lemmy

Except it works beautifully when executed properly, like on washington and 2.0 PEI. You can easily evade higher geared players, and due to how the map is setup you visit every place in a natural and organic pace. Tiering has the opposite effect, since the tired locations are easier camped and punish you harder for dying

@Lemmy, it was a mistake of mine to say something that could be taken to imply that Washington’s loot distribution is what can cause campy behavior. In actuality, geared players can enjoy killing fresh spawns in a variety of ways. As you’ve pointed out it isn’t loot distribution, but location layout (entrances, hiding places, sight lines, etc.) that make camping viable. So why the fuck are you making a claim that you just disproved?

Unturned did have a gameplay loop that could be summarized as find a gun, (and hope the random number gods give you a good one,) and kill anyone you see (even a naked could be hiding a minigun or rail gun in his anus, so you can’t trust anyone) until someone bests you. Respawn and repeat. However, that’s not the design Nelson Sexton is going for with Unturned II, (which is why this version is a separate game, rather than an update to Unturned like the transition between 2.X and 3.X.) If that’s the gameplay you’re looking for you should probably stick to 3.X, atleast until community content brings what you’re looking for into 4.X.

You do raise an interesting point about how tedious it could be to get back to where you were after you’ve been defeated, however that would need to be addressed regardless of whether loot spawns are tiered or clustered together.

[anon67155151]

Good on you for making a separate thread to avoid off topic-ness, but this is a good thing to discuss. Unturned does have a pretty boring loot loop, and for some reason the game that IMO had the best loot progression was for some reason “MineZ” a minecraft zombie mod. The solution to the looting cycle is to contain it and provide zero incentives to return, while also keeping geared players entertained. MineZ did this by having multiple “military” locations in the “end game” area, in order to divide up the people looting them, so the odds of running into geared players looking for more arrows/whatever were lessened. There was barely any food or medicine in said military locations though, and instead there was a single fairly large town with a incredibly amount of food and meds, which was always a massive pvp hotstop, and then smaller areas with less food and meds that were also lootable. This created a risk/reward setup that was very very fun and satisfied PvPers but also rewarded careful players by giving them a choice. There were also dungeons that were mostly for fun and were very difficult with puzzles and the like that usually had some loot, but also unique zany rewards. If U2 did something similar, I would be pretty content.

[Lemmy]

@anon67155151

Unturned does have a pretty boring loot loop

I don’t think the loot loop is actually boring at all, I very much enjoy all the stages of it, particularly the mid tier, but I am mainly a PvP focused player, so it may differ for more peaceful or PvE players. Remember, that something doesn’t have to be boring, just because it’s simple.

The main issue is that maps like Russia expose it far too much, it’s one of the things you don’t think about and are perfectly happy with until you realise that you’re following the same routines over and over, where you start questioning it a bit. With less linear maps like Washington , which I’d consider the holy grail for the PvP experience, you don’t really notice as much and don#t question it as much, as you visit every location and don’t question it as much, since you interact with players and combat on your way between. I’m not very good at putting it into words, but I’m sure some of my fellow PvP mains will get my point.

As for the main thread, I do think you might have a good point on me there, but it’s near my bedtime, and I’ll need some time to rethink my opinion on the matter and to put my barely coherent opinions into words

[anon67155151]

I am a mainly PvP focused player as well, I used to be super sweaty/tryhard but after a while going into third person and holding down lmb stops being fun, especially when there isn’t anything at stake, because it only takes ~10 minutes to gear up on most maps. (The on exclusion really being washington)
The entire reason I like the survival genre is loot fear, as that amps the suspense when fighting, and many maps in unturned are incredibly lacking of it due to absolute lack of progression.

@Lemmy

With less linear maps like Washington

Yes, russia is linear. But how is washington not? You either run into olympia while abusing third person to avoid the geared players camping it, get a gun and lmb on their head, or you ■■■■ around in seattle and do the same thing but look for someone already dead or an eaglefire. Its not the holy grail for PvP, because the PvP is boring. If you die and lose your 10 minutes of progress, just run back to where you died and punch the dude to death. I hate washington because there is nothing it stake, there is nothing to do but PvP, and because when ever you kill people they just walk back and start punching you. You don’t visit every location, because most of them are irrelevant, (If you spawn not on the seattle side of the river, just suicide, if you do spawn on the seattle side, just walk to olympia) I love PvP as much as the next guy, but unturned 3.0 pvp without loot fear just doesnt have enough appeal to me in terms of gunplay for it to be fun by itself

[davidj123456]

It’s a zombie apocalypse, stuff needs to be incredibly rare with a huge emphasis on makeshift weapons.

[TigerSurvivor]

Personally I really like progression in a game, it’s rewarding, you know?
Also, as @anon67155151 said, I am interested in the suspense of looting a city, knowing that there may be someone lurking just waiting for the right moment. This makes players a lot more cautious and discourages massive PvP, maybe we might even see a community-made team deathmatch mod (answer me, is that possible ?!), made especially for players who just like PvP.

[Lemmy]

Honestly after binge-playing some 30 hours of unturned in the past few days I have to agree. Looking at it critically I do agree with your issues with Washington, and do share them, and I did focus too much on Russia in particular when talking about loot progression. You are absolutely right here, the loot fear is definitely a key aspect I had completely forgot due to my inactivity.

[davidj123456]

In U3 this suspense really does not exist unless the server is full. The zombies themselves barely pose much of a threat, which is why I suggest we need more scarce loot (which requires more time spent looting) as well as better zombie mechanics, and maybe more threats that can attack you in general. Plus more player slots per map would be a good idea.

Regarding what @Lemmy said; Russia does have a “loot progression” system of some sort but it is purely bounded by spawning and then walking from one end of the map to another. Problems with this system arise when players actually settle in. If you’ve already moved across the whole map (left side) and looted all the military bases, set up base, got a vehicle, etc you will find it incredibly easy to, say, travel to the firewatch towers or some camp-ground to loot it because all the players there will have garbage gear. You won’t even be afraid. On maps like Germany this isn’t exactly possible as geared players can literally be anywhere.