@Lemmy, it was a mistake of mine to say something that could be taken to imply that Washington’s loot distribution is what can cause campy behavior. In actuality, geared players can enjoy killing fresh spawns in a variety of ways. As you’ve pointed out it isn’t loot distribution, but location layout (entrances, hiding places, sight lines, etc.) that make camping viable. So why the fuck are you making a claim that you just disproved?
Unturned did have a gameplay loop that could be summarized as find a gun, (and hope the random number gods give you a good one,) and kill anyone you see (even a naked could be hiding a minigun or rail gun in his anus, so you can’t trust anyone) until someone bests you. Respawn and repeat. However, that’s not the design Nelson Sexton is going for with Unturned II, (which is why this version is a separate game, rather than an update to Unturned like the transition between 2.X and 3.X.) If that’s the gameplay you’re looking for you should probably stick to 3.X, atleast until community content brings what you’re looking for into 4.X.
You do raise an interesting point about how tedious it could be to get back to where you were after you’ve been defeated, however that would need to be addressed regardless of whether loot spawns are tiered or clustered together.
Good on you for making a separate thread to avoid off topic-ness, but this is a good thing to discuss. Unturned does have a pretty boring loot loop, and for some reason the game that IMO had the best loot progression was for some reason “MineZ” a minecraft zombie mod. The solution to the looting cycle is to contain it and provide zero incentives to return, while also keeping geared players entertained. MineZ did this by having multiple “military” locations in the “end game” area, in order to divide up the people looting them, so the odds of running into geared players looking for more arrows/whatever were lessened. There was barely any food or medicine in said military locations though, and instead there was a single fairly large town with a incredibly amount of food and meds, which was always a massive pvp hotstop, and then smaller areas with less food and meds that were also lootable. This created a risk/reward setup that was very very fun and satisfied PvPers but also rewarded careful players by giving them a choice. There were also dungeons that were mostly for fun and were very difficult with puzzles and the like that usually had some loot, but also unique zany rewards. If U2 did something similar, I would be pretty content.
I don’t think the loot loop is actually boring at all, I very much enjoy all the stages of it, particularly the mid tier, but I am mainly a PvP focused player, so it may differ for more peaceful or PvE players. Remember, that something doesn’t have to be boring, just because it’s simple.
The main issue is that maps like Russia expose it far too much, it’s one of the things you don’t think about and are perfectly happy with until you realise that you’re following the same routines over and over, where you start questioning it a bit. With less linear maps like Washington , which I’d consider the holy grail for the PvP experience, you don’t really notice as much and don#t question it as much, as you visit every location and don’t question it as much, since you interact with players and combat on your way between. I’m not very good at putting it into words, but I’m sure some of my fellow PvP mains will get my point.
As for the main thread, I do think you might have a good point on me there, but it’s near my bedtime, and I’ll need some time to rethink my opinion on the matter and to put my barely coherent opinions into words
I am a mainly PvP focused player as well, I used to be super sweaty/tryhard but after a while going into third person and holding down lmb stops being fun, especially when there isn’t anything at stake, because it only takes ~10 minutes to gear up on most maps. (The on exclusion really being washington)
The entire reason I like the survival genre is loot fear, as that amps the suspense when fighting, and many maps in unturned are incredibly lacking of it due to absolute lack of progression.
Yes, russia is linear. But how is washington not? You either run into olympia while abusing third person to avoid the geared players camping it, get a gun and lmb on their head, or you dick around in seattle and do the same thing but look for someone already dead or an eaglefire. Its not the holy grail for PvP, because the PvP is boring. If you die and lose your 10 minutes of progress, just run back to where you died and punch the dude to death. I hate washington because there is nothing it stake, there is nothing to do but PvP, and because when ever you kill people they just walk back and start punching you. You don’t visit every location, because most of them are irrelevant, (If you spawn not on the seattle side of the river, just suicide, if you do spawn on the seattle side, just walk to olympia) I love PvP as much as the next guy, but unturned 3.0 pvp without loot fear just doesnt have enough appeal to me in terms of gunplay for it to be fun by itself
Personally I really like progression in a game, it’s rewarding, you know?
Also, as @anon67155151 said, I am interested in the suspense of looting a city, knowing that there may be someone lurking just waiting for the right moment. This makes players a lot more cautious and discourages massive PvP, maybe we might even see a community-made team deathmatch mod (answer me, is that possible ?!), made especially for players who just like PvP.
Honestly after binge-playing some 30 hours of unturned in the past few days I have to agree. Looking at it critically I do agree with your issues with Washington, and do share them, and I did focus too much on Russia in particular when talking about loot progression. You are absolutely right here, the loot fear is definitely a key aspect I had completely forgot due to my inactivity.
In U3 this suspense really does not exist unless the server is full. The zombies themselves barely pose much of a threat, which is why I suggest we need more scarce loot (which requires more time spent looting) as well as better zombie mechanics, and maybe more threats that can attack you in general. Plus more player slots per map would be a good idea.
Regarding what @Lemmy said; Russia does have a “loot progression” system of some sort but it is purely bounded by spawning and then walking from one end of the map to another. Problems with this system arise when players actually settle in. If you’ve already moved across the whole map (left side) and looted all the military bases, set up base, got a vehicle, etc you will find it incredibly easy to, say, travel to the firewatch towers or some camp-ground to loot it because all the players there will have garbage gear. You won’t even be afraid. On maps like Germany this isn’t exactly possible as geared players can literally be anywhere.