to me it seems like the head stayed the same size while the body got smaller, making pvp a little more challenging for the aiming impaired people out there
That’s pretty much the problem. The head is already fairly easy to hit in 3.0, but now, in comparison to the rest of the body, it’ll be EVEN EASIER.
He could just shrink it overall then, that’s not a big problem.
and the current head size when actually shown in the Devlog looks fine enough to me too, so regardless of the awkward proportions I’d still probably prefer the current design anyways.
Under the context of in comparison to other body parts in Unturned 4.x, possibly so.
The torso is still wider when fighting head-on, like in most circumstances. When fighting head-on (or from behind) anywhere but the head would be easier to hit. When shooting someone at their side, leading headshots would probably be easier than leading body shots, until they face a different direction. (Of course, they’d still have more body height than head height on their side, so bullet drop factoring in could make it easier to hit arms anyways.
When under the context of Unturned 3’s head versus Unturned 4’s head: Unturned 4.x is harder to hit. If we’re comparing Unturned 3’s body to 4.x’s body, 4.x’s body is harder to hit. If we were to say that 4.x’s head is easier to hit than 4.x’s body, and that 3’s head is easier to hit than 3’s body, then we end up with an overall “PvP is harder in 4.x” no matter what.
The problem isn’t really with the head’s size, I feel that you just feel people will focus on headshots more than anything (which people would try to do regardless, to be honest.) No matter what players will be harder to hit than in Unturned 3, which I feel is a bigger problem than if the head is still possibly going to be easier to hit than the torso.
Tiny baby head hobbit is no good! Make a mock-up that doesn’t look weird and I might agree. I’d rather just have a slightly thicker body though, to be honest, if it had to be changed.
This is a good image to envision any changes on though.
The torso is still wider when fighting head-on, like in most circumstances. When fighting head-on (or from behind) anywhere but the head would be easier to hit.
Not by a lot. The head is huge.
When under the context of Unturned 3’s head versus Unturned 4’s head:
This is irrelevant.
The problem isn’t really with the head’s size, I feel that you just feel people will focus on headshots more than anything (which people would try to do regardless, to be honest.)
And the main reason for this is (likely) a mixture of Unturned’s damage model and the sheer size of the head.
If you look at other survival games, people tend to go for the body since the head is a VERY small target and body hits are practical regardless. In Unturned, the only shots that do base damage or higher are headshots - chest shots do LESS damage then base damage. Not only that, the heads are big. I’d even say it’s a problem with 3.0. The point of the post is just that 4.0 will make it WORSE.
No matter what players will be harder to hit than in Unturned 3, which I feel is a bigger problem than if the head is still possibly going to be easier to hit than the torso.
“Problem”? 3.0 players are very easy to hit. I don’t see how slimming them out a bit is a problem.
Tiny baby head hobbit is no good!
You’d rather have a watermelon head then a regular sized head?
Make a mock-up that doesn’t look weird and I might agree.
Alright, so you said this was good for envisioning changes right?
Well boom.
I literally just (did my best to) shrink everything proportionately so that the front and back of the head weren’t extending past the body. It might be a bit uneven, but I think I got the concept down. If you think that’s too small (I think it’d be fine), it could be a little bit bigger.
had to resize the image just to get the head right then shrink it down again
inb4 nelson comes in and absolutely shuts me down
i miss tiny reddit text.
I apparently missed a word. It helps fix what I found to be the bigger problem: PvP being too easy in general. Head size is far less of an issue to me when the entire player model is now harder to hit in 4.x.
I apparently missed a word. It helps fix what I found to be the bigger problem: PvP being too easy in general. Head size is far less of an issue to me when the entire player model is now harder to hit in 4.x.
Ah alright, that makes more sense. But if anything, shrinking everything BUT the head just makes the size of the head a bigger issue. It’s like if the government renovated all but one building in a neighbourhood. Sure, the neighbourhood is better overall, but that one building stands out even more now.
Perhaps not the best analogy but I think you get my point.
i hope
maybe
probably
The thing is that the net chances of getting hit in 3.0 are (let’s just say) 50%-50%
But in 4.0 with the model having a smaller body, the odds of hitting the body would decrease, thus adding more chances to the head being hit. And that’s wht I think Whistle is trying to say. I might be wrong tho
I get it, I’m just having a hard time editing your analogy to accommodate for the head hitbox being smaller in 4.x. At some point I decided to throw fire hydrants into the surrounding roads.
Yeah. In a previous reply I assume that and kinda touch on it.
Something I did leave out from that reply though was that since the head overhangs the body, the bullet drop on long-distance shots would be more likely to hit the head at the very end due to it sticking out more, but I don’t think that’d ever actually be reliable, unless bullet drop was suddenly exponential at the end for whatever reason (since it’s so gradual in Unturned 3, it should be hitting the same target regardless in that short distance).
3.x’s head hitboxes are slightly bigger than the visual whereas 4.x very closely matches, so theoretically yes.
I get it, I’m just having a hard time editing your analogy to accommodate for the head hitbox being smaller in 4.x. At some point I decided to throw fire hydrants into the surrounding roads.
Christ, I’m reaching Kerfucko levels here.
3.x’s head hitboxes are slightly bigger than the visual whereas 4.x very closely matches, so theoretically yes.
And I don’t think it will be ‘easier’ to hit than 3.x player model.
Not the reason as to why I voted no, but;
If the head size is still the same, but the body is slightly reduced in width, doesn’t that mean the total mass of the 4.x player model is lower, aswell as hitbox mass, thus theoretically hit percentage would be lower compared to 3.x?
Except the counter-point for that is people always go for the head anyways, and that from the side people have arm and leg animations that make them bigger.
I see your point but you have to consider movement/speed and animation/state (heal, gun drawn, consuming, stance, etc…).
Major factor is skill, minor factor is intensity.
In a situation wherein there is high skill, low intensity, I agree that players will aim at the head all the time.
Now in moderate skill and intensity, it is still at 75/25 theoretically, considering movement/speed and animation/state with player model mass.
(Do note these are opinions and not fact. I have no actual numbers for this, unfortunately.)
And the counter-point for THAT is that it’s an Unturned-specific PHENOMENON caused by the already large head. 3.0’s head is ALREADY easy to hit, to the point where you’ll rarely (if ever) see people aiming for anything BUT the head - this will just make the problem WORSE.
Again, in 3.0, people rarely aim for anything but the head if they have the option. You can’t say that ANY of what you said would be unique to 4.0 - it’s not. 3.0 has EVERYTHING that you described would supposedly factor into people not aiming for the head as much, but it DOESN’T HAPPEN.
There’s also ANOTHER thing to consider when talking about the head - if Nelson has shrunk pretty much every other body part (and the main body), why SHOULDN’T he shrink the head? There’s no reason not to if the player’s already harder to hit (in theory, since most people go for the head regardless).
Reading back, I admit there are faults in my replies making vague implications, sorry about that - let me fix it.
The point of my reply to tehsword was that little-to-nothing would change with the new player model.
In a theoretical environment of medium-range combat, the hit rate of a moderate-skilled/intensity player is 75% for head and 25% for body for both 3.x and 4.x player models, even though 4.x has a lower mass. While high-skilled/low-intensity players have a head hit rate of 100%. But if the environment were long range, that would be a different story.
I have no formula for this very rough (unreliable) estimation.
The reason I voted no is because the 4.x player model maintained the 3.x player model silhouette, and I doubt the slight slimming will bring the new meta of “aim for the head always”, stated in tehsword’s reply, because it already is.
We established that the head is actually marginally harder to hit than the previous 3.x one.
But our whole point is it isn’t hard enough.
That is why me and whistle vote for yes.
Either we choose to keep the model which we have recognized in the game for so long because the problem is pretty minuscule, or choose a smaller, strangely looking head so it will be harder to hit for the sake of ‘balancing’ combat
Make a mock-up that doesn’t look weird and I might agree. I’d rather just have a slightly thicker body though, to be honest, if it had to be changed.
At some point I decided to throw fire hydrants into the surrounding roads.