RFC: Banning Purchase of Individual In-Game Items

[Effectism]

@RainOfPain125

Perhaps there are other reasons why they exist outside of your extremely narrow thought process of “popularity = quality/demand!”

These are the driving reasons of any business, ever. Its absolute fact, not an opinion like “they make profit and thats why people play on them” also, stop calling my thought process narrow. Its literally just the opposite of your thought process. Very rude.

@RainOfPain125

If peasants didn’t like Feudalism, they wouldn’t have participated in it.

They didnt get a choice, Rain, your metaphor doesnt work. If they didnt serve their lord they died. There are multiple alternatives to these servers and yet they arnt taken. Nobody is holding a knife to anyones throat saying “play on my server or die.”

@RainOfPain125

If peasants didn’t like Feudalism, they wouldn’t have bought things made under Feudalism.

Nonsense, products in the days of feudalism were mostly essentials like food, clothing, tools. P2W servers are not essentials nor or they the only options available. People can choose not to play these servers, but they dont. Why is this so hard for you to understand Rain? The players are actively choosing to play on these servers.

@RainOfPain125

I wonder why the peasants participated in such a shitty system ‘voluntarily’.

They didnt. But people participate in the p2w servers voluntarily. They dont choose the other options. There was no other option to feudalism, Rain. Again, terrible metaphor really.

@RainOfPain125

They are popular because they pay to be popular.

Not how products and businesses work. You can roll manure in powdered sugar but it still aint a jelly donut. People dont buy bad, undesirable products, no matter how theyre advertised. You cant “pay to become popular” if your server is actually a terrible experience, nobody is going to play on it. Yet, these servers are always full, and the non p2w servers arnt full, so clearly the players like what they see!

@RainOfPain125

Profit =/= Good product

Completely false. Blatantly false, even. Completely goes against the very essence of our economy today. You cant get people to buy garbage if theres no use for said garbage. Do you just think everybody is an idiot or something? Everyone just sees advertisements and goes “gosh I sure am gonna buy this!” lmao?

@RainOfPain125

Meanwhile, honest fair servers that do not buy out YouTubers and do their own wholesome things are of course, at the disadvantage since the large majority of the playerbase, being children, are swayed by kid-friendly content creators to go onto other servers.

So apparently advertising is a bad thing now too? (Entirely opinion btw, Rain, what a nonsensical point to be made here) People are going to have different amounts of money. Its not immoral to advertise a server and its definitely not immoral to have more money than the other servers either. Thats the very idea of competition, Rain. “But its easy for them to buy advertising if they make profit!!” Yeah, it is. Cry about it, thats how businesses work. Its not immoral or bad. What if I just paid out of pocket to advertise a vanilla server, Rain? Why SHOULDNT I give my server more attention? Who deemed you God to decide that all servers should be equal?

Any server that has less capital is at a disadvantage to a server with more capital. This will always be the case, p2w or not. Its competition, and its never going to go away. Theres no justification for making every server equal to poorest, lowest quality host.

@RainOfPain125

I never said they were not popular. And that is beside the point - that paid advantages ruin the gameplay experience. Your efforts to de-rail the conversation with slander and made up garbage is ineffective.

No, I said that. Thats me youre quoting. I said it. “The bad advtantages ruin the gameplay experience” is entirely an opinion, of which I have the opposite one. Why are you presenting it as some universal constant? Cease the ad hominem attacks, Rain, I have valid points here.

@RainOfPain125

step 1 of shit debate discourse, make up what you think your opponent imagines in their head.

You did say this. Stop the namecalling, very rude.

@RainOfPain125

To make the entire concept permanently useless simply because you don’t want to upset ~1000 kids who have unfair ranks, in a one-time update to the enforcement of your EULA, doesn’t seem like a good compromise when it could make tens of thousands of other players happy, or attract tens of thousands more players to the game.

@RainOfPain125

I don’t see the past 100 years of “market demand” stopping the climate collapse of our generation. Surely if we wanted businesses to be environmentally sustainable (or even better, environmentally beneficial) they would have done so already. The market would have met the demand, and yet they have not.

LMAO, environmental options are PLENTIFUL, and yet nobody seems to care despite their moral obligation to! Perhaps there isnt actually any demand in the general populace? The market reflects it exactly.

@RainOfPain125

Perhaps your very narrowminded view on how economics works, is bad. Very bad.

Holy hell the pot calling the kettle black. You are vehemently anti capitalist Rain, your MO has changed in nearly a decade now. Also, this is an ad hominen attack, yet again, that doesnt actually prove me wrong. Terrible forum discourse, honestly.

@RainOfPain125

Servers are in the business of making profit, not providing a good product. It is profitable to convince or manipulate the community in such a way that players looking for servers will filter into P2W servers. And of course the more players playing P2W servers, the more potential profit there is to be made.

There is no demand for bad products. If it was a bad product it wouldnt sell. You have no legs to stand on here Rain, theres nothing forcing people to buy.

@RainOfPain125

Then the logical conclusion is to ban P2W.

Nothing predatory about paying to have a permanent advantage. Entirely your opinion. Nothing wrong with clickbait, nothing wrong with advertising. You are just vehemently anti capitalist, and its not in the least bit subtle. Stop presenting opinions as facts.

@RainOfPain125

If peasants really wanted Feudalism to be overthrown, then they would have overthrown it. Except Feudalism lasted for over 1,000 years. hmm.

“if they really wanted it”

as if they do not really want it.

Easy to say in theory when there isnt somebody with a standing army outside your door. Where are the weapons? Wheres the brute force? Is somebody forcing people to play on these servers? Why arent the alternatives more popular?

[MoltonMontro]

A lot of the recent replies seem to be trying to make remarks regarding various users’ political beliefs, but this information is not super pertinent to us nor the original RFC.

I understand people want to make comparisons, or point out some of the nuances in how people are reaching their conclusion. However, please keep the replies more focused on the RFC as opposed to the people replying to the RFC. Thank you!

[Doy_Man]

for the love of god some1 pls just set up a 2.2.5 server if it wasnt for this 5 mbps wifi id look into it myself

[SDGNelson]

Here is my proposed wording for tomorrow’s announcement. Do you think anything needs further clarification?

Starting on May 28th warnings will begin getting sent out for breaking this rule, and it will take full effect on June 11th.

Hosts are allowed to sell permanent benefits and monthly subscriptions. Consumable microtransactions are not allowed.

Examples of allowed monetization:

• Accepting donations.
• Selling permanent or monthly subscription access to play on the server(s).
• Selling ranks, kits, unlocks, benefits, etc. available permanently or for the duration of the monthly subscription. Timers or cooldowns are fine.
• Selling cosmetics like custom skins, name tags, chat colors, etc. available permanently or for the duration of the monthly subscription.

Examples of banned monetization:

• Selling in-game items like weapons, ammunition, supplies, bases, etc.
• Selling in-game vehicles.
• Selling experience points.
• Selling currency.
• Selling ranks, kits, unlocks, benefits, etc. which stack with themselves as a loophole.
• Selling unbans.

Edit: fixed donation, consumable and benefit typos. Clarified timers or cooldowns are allowed. Clarified stacking loophole and unbans are not allowed.

[anon69713377]

@SDGNelson Sounds entirely reasonable. The middle ground so some servers that want to make profit and expand their network can do so while eliminating the most extreme predatory tactics that we’ve seen thus far.

What Nelson’s proposed seems reasonable. Server owners get what they want, players get what they want. Server owners can make enough money to get plugin & mod commissions, get a proper amount of RAM, and pay for multiple servers if they want to.

[Malviyn]

@Effectism

The bad advtantages ruin the gameplay experience” is entirely an opinion, of which I have the opposite one. Why are you presenting it as some universal constant?

Because for most people, it does hinder their experience and make it generally less rewarding; most players would not play on a server where all their hard work to get to a specific level in society could is skipped by simply paying 10 dollars, that’s an insult to serious players.

@Effectism

You cant get people to buy garbage if theres no use for said garbage. Do you just think everybody is an idiot or something? Everyone just sees advertisements and goes “gosh I sure am gonna buy this!” lmao?

Well you see the thing is, there are sectors of the market with no credibility that still rack in huge amounts of products. It could be entire industries, like natural or traditional medicine, or it could just be fear and / or naivity pushing people to buy stuff. Like when toilet paper sold out during the early months of Covid. There is also a very obvious example of a specific age of people who would buy something even if it’s not perceived as useful or more important than the money they are exchanging it for: kids.

And guess what makes up the vast majority of Unturned’s playerbase? Exactly.

Nelson is doing the exact same thing most western governments have done to protect their younger population from predatory tactics or advertisment. The UK is a good example. They completely banned the use of animated characters, stuffed animals, and generally any and all things that easily pray on a child’s imagination, from advertisements directed at children, like those for candy, soda, etc.

This is NOT a fair market as you may think. The consumer knows no better, because they are a literal child. Unturned, a videogame, is NOT the real world market.

@Effectism

They didnt get a choice

Neither do most players when it comes to which servers to play on. Most of them are P2W because It is just so easy to pray on the younger and naive audiance of Unturned.

@Effectism

These are the driving reasons of any business, ever.

Unturned is Nelson’s property, and he can do with that property whatever he wants. If you are talking about Unturned as a game here instead of Unturned as the franchise, then, again, you cannot make that comparison with the real world, because, unlike in the real world, the vast majority of consumers are not old enough to comprehend the value of money, and server owners know that. That is why Nelson has decided to do the exact same thing as, say, the UK government, and protect his playerbase from the most disgusting forms of P2W.

[SDGNelson]

Locking this thread now that the plan is established, but feel free to open separate topics for related discussion.