Nice, people you agree with cannot overthink, but the ones that do not can.
The moment you start moderating with commands that normal players cannot use you forfit your ability to enage in PvP and raiding.
Fucking lmao. “The people have voted for day but I prefer night. Since they can vote me setting it to night is not abuse”. You cannot possibly be this stupid.
That is a lengthy discussion in and of itself. I’d argue it is not.
If you choose to partake in a democratic system the majority can and pretty much always will enforce their will over minorities. That is inherently how democracy works.
Imma snip that and use it in arguments, a lot.
Nice eassumption there buddy.
Friendly rmeinder that you getting your fee fees hurt does not substantiate abuse.
Problem is not everybody acts in good faith, let alone does “the right thing”. People can and are sadly free to make uninformed decisons. Those are theri decisions, you are in no postion to deny them that decision. If they did we would not be havng this discussion since abuse would be non-exsitant.
or he could just scroll through the applications and pick the applicants he likes and approve them for moderator. a second idea is hiring people to search through the application lists, accept them into a private discord, and nelson can interview them
Shitty devolpers - Fine, Negatively review the game
Shitty Moderators - Negatively review the server’s instead of the game, its about the game mechanics and how the game runs.
and so it was, the germans had crossed the steam group lines, and killed all the britains
ohh trust me i saw the link and didn’t bother clicking it just cause it was 9 in the morning
Wait your talking about Official servers? then why didn’t you clarify that? i thought you were talking about servers in general!
because nobody fucking uses Democracy in videogames.
that still doesn’t help
you know what rain, you got me here after you explained it to me. clarifying here, is it similar to tf2 ban voting system?
On the old TF2 servers I was in, staff were put into positions democratically. You could make an application on the adjacent forums and players who used those forums (some did, others didn’t) could vote yes or no. I’d say it was quite democratic. It worked quite well and I can see how a system like that could be implemented into Unturned.
Oh, so that’s what abuse is too you. Anything an admin does a player can’t despite the fact that they may or may not be using it maliciously, which is wrong. If you’re the player and you see an admin actively trying to do what they’re tasked with and see that as a problem, that’s on you.
But you don’t know that at all. You don’t know what they’re intentions are. That’s being cynical. Also i specifically said “What if they never did that”, and you just dodged that part.
So I’m right in the sense that, you think everyone should find your definition the correct one?
Actually i’ll question any part of this thread that i think is questionable, The mods aren’t stopping me, you can’t stop me.
Oh look at that, bias. Didn’t you get banned for ban-evading? And banned previously for being really toxic?
Actually, in some cases this should play in effect.
If you’re an ■■■■■■■ on the server and you’re already known for being an ■■■■■■■■
But general moderating is not an experience where i have authoritarian mods up my ass?
They’re just, like i said. Doing what they’re tasked with.
So the one big hole is that you think any form of using permissions is abuse, abusing power but that completely evades the definition of abuse.
In this case abuse means
Which if you foresake gameplay and use /vanish and among other commands to spy on players to make sure they’re not breaking rules, that isn’t and will never be abuse.
Edit: What deus is saying here is right
Another Edit: Oh hey maybe we should make a suggestion on how server logs should include more? That’d be useful
I saw a post somewhere deep in this thread, but i can’t find it.
Also i’m reading all of these comments and jeez, maybe we should get yaarg to lock this up?
Rain is looking pretty ignorant here.
What if you’re talking to a player and they see you’re staff and your mere presence intimidates them and they treat you more favorably than other players they encounter? Is that accidentally abusing your role as staff?
What about being suspicious of somebody cheating but not having concrete proof. Are you abusing your authority by thinking that they’re playing better than they should be playing?
Or maybe you’re sitting in godmode talking to a player about an issue and a third person runs by and shoots at the both of you, killing the first player but you come out fine. Did you abuse godmode by making that poor soul waste his rare ammunition on you when it did nothing?
How about someone setting up spawnkill traps or locking down item spawns to the point where only they can access the loot? Is it abuse for staff to destroy these and make the game fair again since they didn’t do it ‘naturally’?
Your answer to most of these is probably ‘this but unironically’, but I’d argue that sometimes it’s better to put your foot down, enforce authority, and say that whatever happens, happens. Walking on eggshells preemptively and tiptoeing around enforcing rules and authority is no way to run a server. With millions of players, everyone’s ideas on what is and isn’t abuse is completely different. Who’s definition of ‘abuse’ do we go off of when a player suspects malpractice? What happens when a player brings up a non-issue that they believe is abuse only to get told it isn’t by the upper staff? Is the player or staff in the right?
Personally I think it’s too early to see whether this will become a problem. Let’s just see how Nelson can handle it - maybe we’ll have a good enough anti-cheat to not need admins for official servers like Rust and such, maybe there’ll be a system alike Overwatch/Observatory, etc.
Lets face it, no exploit protection system is completely bulletproof, and sometimes they are completely useless (like in the case of the creepy old man spouting suggestive or not-so-subtle lines in the chat or the ISIS recruiter trying to find more suicide bomb carriers in Unturned). On the other hand there is the issue of staff abuse caused by all staff having the same amount of power or the owner(s)/supervisor(s) not caring, or even just plain deviousness.
I suggest the following system be implemented in Unturned 4.0/II’s official servers:
A staff hierarchy system as follows:
MEDIATOR/WATCHDOG STAFF
Rank 1
Recruited globally from multiple time zones to ensure near constant availability
Must be available at least 3 hours per 3 day period
Staff who are fluent in the language used most frequently in chat
Called in by server chat monitor bot (and possibly a spawn point monitor bot) or simple majority vote of players (one player if only two or 50% + 1 player if more than 2 are online)
Calls in Rank 2 staff if situation is deemed important
Rank 2
Called in by Rank 1 staff, two thirds vote of server players if Rank 1 staff is present but refusing to call in Rank 2, or by server watchdog bots beginning 1 minute after Rank 1 logs in and continuing for 5 minutes or 2 minutes after Rank 1 leaves sever if the chat monitor bot picks up negative keywords about Rank 1 staff and comparison with server log data reveals it to be mostly (80% or more) correct.
Can act as backup to a Rank 1 staff and can also call in Rank 3 staff if the situation warrants it.
INTERVENTION/RESPONSE STAFF
Rank 3
Has access to kick and ban commands along with a give command limited to 10 rareness points every 10 minutes that do NOT accumulate (see Table 1)
Can view player’s inventories and spy on players
Can call in Rank 4 staff if needed or put in a help request if Rank 4 is not available or does not need to be present on the actual server (i.e. to ask for a petition).
Rank 4
Has access to kick and ban commands along with a give command limited to 30 rareness points upon entering the server they were calle into and 10 more every 5 minutes that do accumulate and can make any player a temporary staff of Rank 1 only
Can view player’s and lower ranking on-duty staff’s inventories and spy on players and lower ranking on-duty staff
Can request specific server record from higher ranks (i.e. “Where is the player jimmy2527’s base on (insert official server name here)?” in the case of a potential glitched/hacked base
Can put in and vote on a petition against another staff (1x petition power for ranked petitions)
Rank 5
Has access to full server commands and unlimited rareness points for the give command and can make any player a temporary staff of up to Rank 2 or temporatily uprate any staff to Rank 4
Can view player’s and on- or off- duty staff’s inventories and spy on players and on- or off- duty staff
Can restart server and save game data but cannot shut the server down or for more than 10 minutes or wipe it unless granted this ability by Nelson or one of his official representatives
Can put in and vote on a petition against another staff (1.5x petition power for ranked petitions)
Can be willingly made responsible for maintaining server records for up to 3 official servers
Can destroy specific structures and barricades
Can delete up to 5 specific items from a player (up to 50 rareness points) or clear lower ranking staff’s inventories
ADMINISTRATIVE STAFF RANKS
Rank 6
Has access to full server commands and can make any player a temporary staff of up to Rank 3
Can destroy any and all structures
Can clear inventories of any and all players and lower ranking staff
Can put in and vote on a petition against another staff (2x petition power for ranked petitions)
Can vote on staff applications (1x vote power)
Can revoke staff status and perks for staff up to Rank 3
Rank 7
Has the power to make any player a full staff or Rank 1 or temporarily uprate any staff to Rank 5 or player to staff Rank 3
Can act as a man in the middle or representative of Nelson or any of his official representatives by a direct order from the person they are to represent
Can put in and vote on a petition against another staff (3x petition power for ranked petitions)
Can vote on staff applications (1.5x vote power)
Can revoke staff status and perks for staff up to Rank 5
Nelson and his official representatves
Have absolute power unless otherwise decided by Nelson himself
Staff Petition Rules
Staff Petitions are to be fair-game votes, rank does not matter in a Staff Petition and in the case of a 50-50 tie on votes Nelson or one of his official representatives must make the final decision within 30 days or the petition will expire and no action will be taken.
The staff under petition must be notified that they are under petition as soon as their case comes under review.
The final decision reached on a Staff Petition may be vetoed by Nelson or one of his official representatives
The staff under petition has 10 days to ask for another review of their case by all different staff than the first time and this appeal must be acted upon within 30 days. Their previous petition case data will be saved until the second decision is made. This decision will be final and the file deletion countdown will reset to its original value after a decision is made.
Staff Petition Outcomes
Termination means all staff perks and priviledges are revoked
Exile means termination and either a permanent or temporary ban from a specific server or specific servers
Suspension means all staff perks and priviledges are revoked of a specific, non-zero non-infinite period of time
No Action means no action will be taken or action may be taken later on certain conditions that will be made clear to the staff that was petitioned against
No Violation means that the staff under petition was found not to have violated any rules or otherwise done anything that needs to be addressed
All petitions will be recorded and will stay on record for at least 30 days depending on the type and severity of the voilation unless they ended in Termination, in which case they may be deleted immediatley after the staff is blacklisted. No Violation records must be kept for at least 15 days in case more information comes out and the case is reopened
Staff Rules
Under no circumstances may staff give themselves items and under no circumstances may items granted to them by another staff be stored in any physical location on the server map or given to any player or another staff unless otherwise directed by a Rank 4 or higher staff
When not performing official staff duties staff may choose enter an off-duty mode in which they do not appear as staff and are switched to an in-game character other than their on-duty character and must play with no staff priviledges. Staff may go on-duty whenever they want but must perform their rank’s associated duties and those of lower ranks if none are present (i.e. Rank 4 staff acts as Ranks 1,2,3, and 4 unless for instance a Rank 2 is also present in which case Rank 4 covers ranks 3 and 4 and Rank 2 covers ranks 1 and 2
Staff applications must be submitted through official channels. Do not accept staff applications unless otherwise authorized. Instead refer the player to an officially authorized staff member
Power mongering and personality cults will not be tolerated
A consensus between at least 3 higher ranking staff to demote another staff is required before demotion will be allowed
Changes and additions to the staff and general server rules must be approved by Nelson or any of his official representatives or accepted in a vote by Rank 6 and Rank 7 staff
Suggested promotion procedures
To Rank 2
Automatic after 50 hours total on official servers within a 30 day period (1 on-duty hour = 2 hours in total)
To Rank 3
Automatic after 75 hours total on official servers within a 30 day period (1 on-duty hour = 2.5 hours in total)
To Rank 4
Requires 60 hours total on official servers within a 30 day period (1 on-duty hour = 3 hours in total)
Requires a majority vote in favor of promotion for promotion from current Rank 4 staff and less than 67% negative reviews from current Rank 2 staff and less than 50% negative reviews from current Rank 3 staff
To Rank 5
Requires a majority vote in favor of promotion by current Rank 4 and current Rank 5 staff and at least 20 successfully resolved in-game disputes on official servers to date
To Rank 6
Requires a majorty in favor of promotion by current Rank 4 staff and a two thirds vote in favor of promotion by Rank 5 and Rank 6 staff
Requires 8 months of staff service before consideration
To Rank 7
Requires a 75% vote in favor of promotion by current Rank 5, Rank 6, and Rank 7 staff
Requires confirmation from Nelson or one of his official representatives
Nelson or any of his official representatives may override promotion and demotion procedures at will and they alone can change promotion requirements. Changes may be suggested by administrative staff (Rank 6 and Rank 7).
Table 1
Common = 1 point
Uncommon = 2 points
Rare = 3 points
Legendary = 8 points
Mythical = 30 points
I can see what you are going for but I think having no less than 7 different ranks kinda overcomplicates things plus it does little to adress the core “issue” OP has.
holy shit, no beef but who goes on a random forum, sees a post that intimidates him so hard that he creates an account and his first post ever is 9171 characters long. @radiskull2000
I’m going to reply to all of this eventually, I’ve just been too busy. yall can debate about it for me in the meantime.
