Would official servers promote pay to win?

that was my point. Which is why i think the P2W servers won’t be that good to play on

Discrimination is inherently required to have good members.
You’ll have to discriminate against people who are known to be toxic, griefers or otherwise.

I mean… look at all the P2W servers now. Comprised of both kids that run around and pvp champs that enjoy killing them all. Theres always the pvp-hungry people that are atleast decent at the game playing those servers to demolish the kids lol

Yes but I meant discriminating against age, experience in the game, steam account age, gender, online identity, profile pictures, etc. I’ve seen lots of places discriminate against me or others for one of the listed above reasons. Doesn’t particularly mean we’re toxic because we have a furry profile picture or whatever it be. Some servers are a lot more fair and not so discriminative (like the one you’re describing or envisioning I assume and stuff)

But it’s not like the person in charge of whitelisting would know if they are going to be toxic or grief. Sure they could take a wild assumption but unless they’re lowkey informed about the person (which theres thousands of Unturned players and I doubt someone would randomly know the guy and have concrete evidence against the guy for being toxic) then I don’t see a reason not to whitelist them.

edit: Very much how I have very little to no reason not to whitelist people into the RA. Very rarely will a troll or enemy be found and denied. And the only other people that are denied are week 0 accounts

For the most part I agree, save for some lewd profile pictures or really young players (because let’s be honest, not every single kid is mature.)

Okay so first of all this post was made months ago. It’s not guaranteed this is still accurate

This is a very, very large number. 2000 or more hackers? Sounds very exaggerated to me

Well first of all. The servers are gonna be vanilla. Rocket mod is not vanilla. Also saying that rocket is great when just the other day you talked a lot about how rocket gives Sven a massive power boner and lets him control all the server seems very, very odd to me. Please be more consistent in your opinions.

Here I think you need to re-consider a staff members role for a vanilla server non rocket. It’s not something where you have to have staff ready 24/7. In vanilla the worst stuff that really happens is hackers and exploits. There won’t be any rule breaking other then that as there won’t be a need for rules other then that. Sure if a hacker comes around it’s nice to get them banned asap. But you won’t need a staff member on every minute to make sure no hackers are on. There could be a forum for reporting and then staff could investigate that.

Another thing here, which I will talk about in the next segment, commands such as god and vanish are not really gonna be needed for a low maintenance server.
God, /back, vanish, spawning in stuff and teleportation are the things I mostly see when someone complains that a admin is abusing. And if you remove rocket a admin can only do two of these things. Spawning in and teleportation. Now if Nelson has a console log that you can easily search in then all off these could quickly be checked. A admin wouldn’t accidentally be in god or vanish if there is no god or vanish. Once again these people would have to be trusted by Nelson and those people come in very rare supply, and a place for reporting admins could exist, other then just someone checking logs.

Now I’m gonna have to stop you right there buddy. God and vanish is useful yes, but they are also some of the most ludicrously op commands. You could be in god or vanish and not even notice it. I’ve been staff on multiple servers and it has happened. These are commands that only real use in a vanilla server is admin abuse. There won’t be a need to have these commands, you won’t need it to check player names with a spectator camera, like the one we have now. You won’t need it to talk to people thanks to the wonderful thing called chat. And you would be just fine if you used spy.

Glad we can agree on something, logs that you can easily search through is needed for server management.

I can’t say I relate there. There has been plenty of fine servers in my experience, and some, like froshington completely vanilla. It can take sometime to find a good server yes but I personally think there is plenty of fine servers.

It’s still incredibly accurate. I still moderate my own servers are ban cheaters regularly. I’m not talking about no “haha yeet I glitchted through the ground” exploiting I’m talking about hacked clients.

It’d be nice if I could pull up a Battleye statistic on how many hackers have been banned. Though I didn’t mean to put it in the way that I’ve actually met 1,000 hackers. Of course though, I’ve seen them before, and they’re not too rare.

Well lets stop talking or using the term Rocket since it won’t be in 4.x. just for later talking.

Of course there would need to be staff to get on ASAP. The faster a staff member can get on to ban the hacker the less damage is done. It’s not like server staff can “revert” damage done by cheaters. For instance if I have a total hunk of OP loot on me and I get killed by a hacker I can’t just demand the admins give me all my loot back - they don’t know what I had, and they can’t prove that I had it. It would be abusive of them to spawn in what I supposedly had.

Never said they had to be on the server every minute, but having enough staff members so that one can be on to open the game and investigate in a moment’s notice would be great. These are the official servers after-all, we paid for them, we should get excellent ‘service’

I use god and vanish all the times to watch hackers. If you knew about the hacking problem or read my post that is the only way to diagnose if someone is indeed cheating - by taking your time to watch and see if they do extremely suspicious movement (or blatant hacker movement such as phasing or shooting through walls). There is positively no other good method for catching hackers in 3.x and I assume it will be the same case for 4.x, just how it is in nearly every other game. Minecraft, Rust, Unturned, etc. Staff watch players movement and watch closely for perceived invalid or wrong movement or actions.

God and vanish give staff the ability to safely and discretely carry out this duty of watching. In 4.x I feel like HUD / GUI will be a big thing, so maybe there will be a big icon to remind you that you’re in vanish or god, which would definitely help with unintentionally being in it while running around gaming normally.

Of course they are. Thats another big reason vanilla servers in 3.x are garbage.

aaaaaaaaaaaaa I can’t help you there. It’s my own personal opinion why that server is unsuitable for me or my groups playing (refer to earlier talk about discrimination). Infact it’s funny that you brought that up, since I noticed how popular those servers were and made my own EU alternative to them (that aren’t what I disliked)

Take time as in waiting extremely patiently for new servers to arise… Trust me, I constantly search all PEI, Washington, and Russia map servers everyday. It’s the same case of the seemingly good servers being dead while all the imo garbage p2w servers are popular.

Although there isn’t any problem with that statement, sounds pretty believable to me, it would be very nice if you could get some sort of accurate statistic on this.

Yes of course that’s what hackers are, exploiting isn’t the same as hacking.

Well that’s what you said so that’s how I interpreted it. But yes makes more sense.

Yes indeed it’s better if you can react as quickly as possible. But you also have to think that Nelson isn’t gonna have the time to manage these servers. And with them being official the staff is gonna have to be very trust able, and probably be good friends Nelson or the lucky person who becomes server manager, maybe even both. And there isn’t a large supply of those people. And you gotta realize that the more admins that get implemented for these servers the higher the chance of one of them being abusive. And there isn’t gonna be just one server either. And yeah staff can’t revert damage that has been done by a malicious user, but people aren’t gonna be running around with their best loot unless they are about to do a epic base raid, which isn’t gonna be as profitable in 4.0. Or they are going back to base with them.

How do you think spy compares? Don’t think being able to take a screenshot of their screen helps? Yes I know there are some hacks that either just put pictures from another session or hides. And the one with just a random pick can easily be identified as another map or see the obvious differences.

A lot of games use this magical thing called “anti cheat”. And a lot of games don’t have staff members watching suspected hackers every move trying to tell if they are hacking, most rely on anti cheat.

First off all you can still stalk players with the free cam. Second you gotta keep in mind that if Nelson adds god and vanish for every server then other servers are gonna have access to it too. Where the staff probably isn’t trusted as much and abuse wouldn’t exactly decrease.

You search through every server on a vanilla map? Do you actually take a some time to go in game and play a bit? For me even if there is some blatant P2W I can still enjoy the server for a while. Also where is Yukon? By far best map don’t disrespec ma boi Yukon over here :fist:.

So you noticed that non P2W vanilla servers where popular? I’m bit confused here. If they are popular enough for it to be a good idea to launch your own non P2W vanilla servers just hosted somewhere else then isn’t there enough good servers to go around? Or are you saying that both froshington and your own servers are bad?

It’d be cool if I could find some BE statistics.

Just making sure we’re on the same page

:smiley:

And he could put someone in charge of them. Afterall he’s paying for the servers, and after all there are more than enough people willing to be moderators for free, so why not someone manage the servers for free?

If you read the post, anti spy has advanced as far as I predicted it would. Hack clients basically render a screenshot that doesn’t feature any hack features (no hack HUD, GUI, 100% accuracy crosshair looks normal, no ESP even if there is ESP, etc). It’s completely undetectable with spy. The other old cringy methods of anti spy are a laughing stock compared to this one.

As stated, anti cheat is not going to be perfect. Staff will always be necessary and they will need valid tactics and tools to fulfill their duties. As I said, god and vanish lets them do the most basic duty of surveillance.

Me being a server hoster the anti-cheat is a very passive, by passable measure. Atleast in the games I host in. Minecraft, Rust, Unturned. All are not perfect and good servers use both passive (anti cheat) and active (server moderators) forms of stopping cheaters. In minecraft theres tons of different hack clients beind made every month, and the tools provided by the community at best only stop the most easily noticeable ones such as Kill Aura. Other things like ESP are much more subtle, however extremely powerful and useful.

I mean, I kinda forgot about freecam. Though you could, freecam has it’s limits and by giving staff free cam you are also giving them the ability to use ESP (seeing player names) and the ability to move other players structures around - which can easily be abused without any traces of proof or of who had done it (another reason vanilla servers are bad). Freecam does have the limit of rendering when you get far away from yourself (no longer rendering terrain or structures fully, etc)

Second you gotta keep in mind if nelson did things right then all servers would have permission groups, and if server owners do not want to give the moderator rank on their server vanish or god permissions then they don’t have to. I think they should, thats just my own opinion.

I can judge nearly 80% of the criteria of a server based on it’s title or description. If I can’t I join the server and do a few common crap commands (/donate, /vote, etc) and I check if they have a discord. Obviously if they don’t have a discord they aren’t a very organized or centralized server. For me any sort or level of P2W whether extreme or mild is still infuriating. I am a very skillful player and loosing because I’m poor irl pisses me off - and pisses off other veterans that I know of.

-Just recently I completely quit playing on a server I used to practice on called Bleeding Out because the owner decided it was best to add p2w ranks to make profits for himself. Now that the server staff have all their amazing kits and what not it was fairly obvious that it was unfair-

Yukon? That died for me. I completely hate how it goes from complete blizzard to complete visibility. IMO Yukon was much better before all the changes. Ex if you had a full set of clothing you didn’t freeze. Thats when it was popular and thats when people enjoyed it the most. A big part of why I enjoyed Yukon was the heavy emphasis on CQC because of the fact there was a 24/7 mild snowstorm that limited vision a bit. It promoted hiding your base, and especially made skybases a tool to be reckoned with. Though I suppose we’re getting a little off topic :sweat_smile: no hate on yukon my mang

Froshington had some notable problems with it that made it (in my eyes) unsuitable for me to play on and ruined my experience on it. I’m not trying to disrespect or expose it, but I’m just going to merely use it as an example. This is subjectively what we saw and you may not experience the same things.

  • The server was pure vanilla. All server staff were admins on the server. Which they seemingly abused the quick-salvage ability to build up to our skybase wayyyyy faster than a normal player could
  • Me and my friends while playing had notable unexpected massive FPS drops - something that is normally associated with being /spy’d on over and over (none of us had this at the same time, and we weren’t moving past a invisible deload-load map barrier)
  • The staff heavily discriminated against RA members because some of them directly knew us. This was extremely noticeable when asking for staff help or what not. Other RA members claimed they were mistreated or what not but I stopped caring because we all decided to stop playing on it anyways
  • The server was rented and it was very clear that it was. Constant spikes in ping and extreme lag probably meant that the server they chose didn’t have enough RAM, which they later confirmed they didn’t. They were trying to host too many servers on one rented overpriced VPS

All of these problems are addressed in our servers and are not present. We never discriminate against people, the server is not rented and is dedicated and has plenty of resources and RAM to spare, nobody on our servers are Admins - they’re moderators with limited abilities, and we never 1 spam spy and ruin FPS and 2 use spy to gain an advantage over other players (as I said earlier I never even play on my servers, so me getting an advantage is non-existent. Other staff play, but I heavily moderate the chat logs frequently).

Froshington is a really good example of a non-p2w franchise that also happens to be popular but in my eyes it could easily have done better and prevented such things from happening. just imo.

that was my point… playing on them for survival would be a pain in the ass because of all the KOS and stuff

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I think it largely depends on how the Pay to Play is done.

For instance, if it’s going to be done as a single payment for a premium version that grants you access to all “premium” servers, then it probably won’t promote P2W.

Also, it will encourage nelson to put more stuff in vanilla (possibly as “curated content”.)

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Seriously? You cant find a server to chill on? It is so easy. Just set your search settings to vanilla and no plugins then boom, 7 good servers. What you are saying about not being able to find a server is EXTREMELY your fault.

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Hmm. You just suggested I play on a vanilla server when we’ve been trash talking vanilla and explaining why I don’t play it… I don’t think you’ve been reading some of the more latest comments.

To refresh your memory Vanilla is terrible and Rocket is always required for an actual server.

Problems which should be negated by II’s permission groups, no?

Capitalize as in make some money. All the incentive they’d need is a donation page, just like yourself. Not pay to win.

And yes, I imagine that some people would host for free like you’ve said before. Both of these reasons are why I think Vanilla will be just fine.

Go have a gander at that imgur album I posted previously. The quantity of Vanilla servers are not an issue, it’s how many people use them.

What have you been doing for the past couple of years? I know for a fact that you haven’t been playing official servers, so it almost seems like you’ve managed finding acceptable community servers up until this point.

If that’s important to you, then I’m sure you could make the ‘ultimate sacrifice’ of playing on community servers from time to time. Alternatively, if your group wants to play with you that much, and you refuse to play normal servers, then I think they can spare five bucks.

Then if you want rocket just join ANY random server with people.

(Also if i am off, im only skimming through rhis because I don’t want to spend an hour reading.)

Plugins will always be a thing in games. However, if Nelson does the server listing as Rust did (which is seperate modded servers from vanilla servers, from official servers and such) it would be much more efficient. But that’s besides the point.

Most of the P2W servers are hosted by kids trying to make money off a free game, as they would with any game given the chance. However U II isn’t going to appeal to the immature audience as 3.0 did due to the complexity of II compared to the simplicity and blood lust of 3.0 thus spawning far less P2W servers.

P2W servers will always be a thing, whether in Unturned or other games, but their number would (probably) drastically drop in comparison with 3.0’s servers due to the significant downfall of immaturity in Unturned II (hopefully)

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No evidence that permission groups are coming to 4.x?

Oh, well OK. Yah I capitalize on cosmetic ranks that offer no advantage because of course it is fair. At this point I can’t really convey how it wouldn’t be as fine, so I’ll leave it there.

If tons of people used them then they would be filled to the brim and in higher demand. Clearly they are not. Unless you worded that wrong, because seemingly players are not attracted to Vanilla. Though IMO ‘vanilla’ servers are unsuitable, while Rocketmod servers that are vanilla would be (basically a normal rocket server with just moderation commands in 3.x would be in my eyes a vanilla 4.x server due to the increased vanilla capabilities) But sorting through that would be pretty impossible since theres no filter for the serverlist to help with that (and even if there were a ‘plugin’ server filter then that would include moderation and staff plugins, too)

For the past year we’ve been hoping from server, to server, to server. Servers either shutdown due to the owners poor decisions to rent and then lie about renting, renting a machine and then seemingly running out of funds and needs to create p2w ranks in order to fuel the fire (again, another bad move - which is why we’ve stopped playing rented servers). It’s incredibly hard to find a dedicated hoster that actually is providing gud shi. One potential server we found lagged like hell, upon asking the machine was running on literally 2002 hardware like DDR2.

Other servers that we get into over time reveal their true colors because some things aren’t quite immediately noticeable. Staff being plain ignorant, rude and unhelpful (or discriminative) isn’t something you learn within a day.

Tons upon tons of servers are immediately crossed off because of location, ping, highloot, abusive plugins, no staff, no discord, p2w, mods, wipes, or proof that it’s rented.

And thus far, we don’t really have a permanent proper server to roll out on :smile: though we’re in the midst of trying one server (sadly we had to sacrifice for a 2x tpa home server, but meh, it’s the best we’ll get)

This ‘ultimate sacrifice’ would

  1. Discourage literally any serious group from going out and buying the official pass because they’ll be busy playing with their teammates on the official servers
  2. I myself would never enjoy these servers because I would constantly be dragged into playing with teammates too poor or lazy to buy the pass. So I now have no incentive to buy it
  3. #2 would also apply to a lot of other fellow group members
  4. Again, tons of Unturned players are completely f2p and have never bought anything on steam
  5. Also, another new argument against official servers is the lack of newbs. Good or bad. I think thats pretty bad :frowning:

A lot of P2W servers are people fleeing to Unturned because of how easy it is to host and create a server and basically digging a gold mine. Very much how Bitcoin miners flee’d to towns with incredibly cheap power and absolutely ate up the electricity. It gives nothing back to the community except a higher electric bill for everyone. Of course 4.x will not appeal to ‘immature’ audiences because it would be ‘harder’ and more ‘survival orientated’.

Kids hate challenge - modded servers will definitely fix that and profit off of it. Who wants to progress through the game and work when they can buy the lovely rank? P2W is based around competition against other players and laziness to actually grind or work for your items, which kids are subjected to both of those quite a lot.

Of course they will

I would be less concerned with P2W if it wasn’t as big of a problem now than what everyone optimistically and blindly assumes it will be in the future. There will always be miners to mine and they only have a larger incentive to mine when other miners leave.

P2W isn’t exactly in regards to immaturity. We could have a mostly adult community and the serverlist could still be dominated by P2W networks - because of ignorance. If people don’t realize why it’s bad or unfair then nobody will complain. Immaturity just fuels the “competition” reason behind P2W. oh that other kid killed me now i wanna destroy his clan hahahaha lol dab buys 50$ rank.

Yarr has some wise words, please try to abide by them.

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If people are buying ranks on servers, then they have money to buy the official server pass, which is unlike what you have been saying.

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“One useful difference (and this is true for the web API too) is that you can assign multiple RCON keys with different permissions, rather than one global password for the server.”
https://blog.smartlydressedgames.com/unturned-4-x-devlog-012/

Now that we’ve cleared up that permissions will be offered in Vanilla, I’d like to link back to where I claimed that Vanilla servers would be a viable option for you to play on. The problems you listed would be negated by permissions. Modded servers, which lead to pay to win servers, won’t be necessary for basic permissions. Thus, less pay to win servers.

The other half of my sentence implied that the lack of players was the issue… To clarify, I do not think that Vanilla servers are full to the brim with players.

Before we lost track here, we were discussing how there may not be enough Vanilla servers, but if 3.0 is a good precedent, then there should theoretically be more than enough servers for everyone.

So in essence, you’ve had a lot of trouble finding good servers for your huge group (perhaps why you shouldn’t make them). Despite that, you’ve managed it enough to where your group still operates.

With that being said, I’ll concede that it’s hard for a big group like the one you manage to find good steady servers that fit all of your criteria. Here’s the thing though, I don’t care. I would rather take official server passes as the way to fund II rather than make II pay to play. This means all the free to play fans can still enjoy the game, all of those interested in less hackers can go to official, and hosters have more of a reason to host Vanilla than in Rust.

I would much rather have the experience better for the average player than sacrifice some of that for people in large groups. If you want steady servers for RA, Nelson has your solution, and it’s only $5.

I don’t mind if groups don’t buy the pass. I’d love to see a decrease in huge groups that typically dominate servers.

If you can’t manage to get a lot of players to buy the pass, I recommend playing in smaller groups of friends instead.

No issue there. Just gives you a good challenge.