As for fire damage on the base structures, it’s too much. 1% per second is just 1 minute and 40 seconds, that’s fast enough for an offline raid and requires no explosives or rare military loot, just a lighter and gasoline. On a small 1x1 or 2x2 that only requires 1 wall to get inside, that deterrent wouldn’t be effective enough.
Regarding it taking only 3 gas cans, this just means that gas cans will be collected as raiding items with people eventually getting enough for an efficient raid. 3 cans wouldn’t be that hard to get, especially if you had a group where each member held 1-2 cans. You’d also be able to effectively minimize the time it takes by using a vehicle to drive back and forth from a gas pump, or by siphoning the vehicle’s gas directly.
And it wouldn’t be a waste of gas if you were raiding someone’s base for their valuables, that would be an excellent use of an infinite resource (gas).
As for burning trees, it’d look kind of odd if a tree just stopped burning randomly, but if it was to protect large forests for gameplay that’d be worth it. The multiple lighter use would also serve as a good deterrent. If it got too bad Nelson could always tweak it.
Well, the numbers are just an example so i can easily deliver the idea that I’m trying to give out.
Who said we have infinite gas? Even in 3.x, the gas was limited unless you had a generator and a pump jack. And in 4.x, I highly doubt it’s gonna be as easy to get fuel especially since it’s supposed to be much more difficult. Let’s not forget that finding a gas can is a pain in the ass, even in 3.x.
As for what you’re trying to say, you’re comparing 4.x with 3.x which is the flaw in your argument (for the most part, at least). Everything is going to be harder to find and will require work to achieve. So people will have to choose what they have to use their fuel on, whether be trasportation or damage to structures.
However, when it comes to trees, i only said they’d stop burning is because for balance because that wouldn’t allow people to simply burn down trees with 1 drop of fuel.
Again, for the fire damage on structures, it can be easily reworked into doing something like 0.01% damage per second on 1 wall only. Keep in mind that lockers and metal storage won’t be affected by the fire. Unless we do something like a 0.00001% fire damage multipier
The 3.0 gas system slowly regenerates, thus making it infinite. On a good sized server (24-16 players on Russia) This regeneration is adequate to be able to find gas within a few locations. 4.x should follow the same system unless gas is only for the first people to join a server.
The generator and pump jack are an even better infinite source of gas, meaning you can generate an infinite amount of raiding fuel. It would be harder for players to get this type of system, but that just means the top players on a server can create their own raiding supplies instead of looting for them.
I’m comparing it to the closest thing we have to 4.x: 3.0. While it’s not completely accurate to what the final product will be, it’s offers a good prediction of what 4.x will be.
And if you could please provide a link to Nelson saying that everything will be harder to find, I’d appreciate it. I’ve heard it’s going to be more survival focused and serious, not that all of the items will spawn less frequently.
I Understand, that’s why I’d go with that. For the gameplay instead of the realism.
This alone would be good enough of a change to prevent fire raiding from becoming an exploitable meta. I was just arguing against your suggested idea since that’s what was in the original post.
However, it totally ruins any point in burning wooden base walls. I’d add a small amount of damage to anyone standing against a lit wall (while not necessarily being the side that’s on fire) to add a practical combat use. Raiders could isolate where the enemy is and light the walls near the base owners on fire to add some pressure and possibly deal a little damage.
When it comes to the gas system, the gas pumps shouldn’t be full at the start to show that some real shit went down and some people tried to use the gas. So it shouldn’t be filled. And regenerate at a VERY slow pace. In 3.x we had gas stations and gas tanks all filled with gas almost all the time, even in a full Washington server. There’s always a lot of gas you can find, whether you went to the mili base, or almost any city.
As for the rarity in loot, literally 3.x’s mistake was having rare loot spawning so frequently that you can have a full set of weapons from a simple 5-minutr raid on the military base. And Nelson wants 4.x to have what 3.x didn’t, hence why he’s making 4.x in the first place. 3.x had loot everywhere, letting people have end game gear in such little time, so from that you can safely say that loot will be more difficult to find otherwise the same mistake will be done twice.
The closest thing we have, true. But it’s still very different than 3.x in regards to many things such as newer mechanics, different gun play, better graphics, and a completely different engine as well. So yes, 3.x is the closest we have, but it’s still very different. So comparing the 2 games isn’t the smartest thing to do.
Fire damage on players is another topic that doesn’t really need discussing because it’ll come to no surprise that the player will be hurt badly for being so close to a wall that’s on fire, or anything that’s on fire in that regard.
Fair enough. Random amounts of fuel avalaible would accomplish this pretty well.
Yeah, on easy mode… On normal and hard it takes several trips to military locations for a good amount of weapons and armor. And since normal mode is what the game is mainly balanced for, I don’t see much issue with 3.0’s current spawn rates. If this were truly a big issue, Nelson can change the spawn rates in the editor, it’s not that hard. This isn’t something that requires months of work on an entirely new game. So if you could link me to anything saying or suggesting that he’s decreasing item spawns instead of just assuming that he’s nerfing them, I’d appreciate it.
Good point.
Alright. I’d say that about concludes the meat and potatoes of this debate. You don’t necessarily need to respond to my second point since either way we agree on limiting the raiding effectiveness of fire, and that was my main concern. But if you’d like to, feel free.
Overall still some very interesting ideas for fire mechanics in 4.x.
It’s not official yet. But almost everyone here could agree. Because i usually on normal difficulty servers, mostly vanilla and i found a Nykorev in Heritage valley, and a Heartbreaker in the military checkpoints. You can find guns anywhere. And you can have 3 days worth of food and water in 1 trip to the city. Not to mention, I found enough clothes to make about 20 dressings (no exaggeration). You can have most of the important things so fast. And i’m not the only one saying this, many people here have requested there to be less spawns to increase difficulty
So that is why I hope that item spawns are less often
Lessening the item spawns is something you can already adjust in 3.X, but people don’t decrease it all that often. Instead of just decreasing the amount of items, the value of each item needs to be decreased, and the risk taken to acquire each item needs to increase. We don’t need less content, just tougher zombies, more expensive crafting, and less powerful consumables.
I’d also like the spawn rates to be decreased to make it tougher, but there’s nothing really showing that Nelson is guarenteed to do this. Like I already said, it’s easy to adjust in 3.0. So if Nelson is aware that item spawns are too frequent, and he can fix them pretty easily, why doesn’t he? And how can you be so confident that he’s changing them based on no official statements or actions? You’re assuming his intentions.
Anyways this is getting the discussion off topic. The original point was that you could find several gas cans and use them to burn down base structures. But that doesn’t matter if the multiplier is really low like 0.01%.
Broadly/generally, many people seem to agree that there is a very short progression system in Unturned 3. Personally, I believe the only map that does loot progression “well” is Russia.
Nelson has openly acknowledged that Unturned 3 has both a hardcore and casual playerbase, and that adding one thing often ends up getting negative feedback from the other. 4 has been openly stated to be heading towards a “darker” more hardcore direction, which includes not encouraging PvP through end-game items (and guns in general) spawning super frequently. Fixing loot progression is high on that list, especially so PvE has a place in the game.
That’s only a small fragment of the reason for a new game though.
Anyways, iirc (without checking) he’s never directly said anywhere directly that he plans to straight-up decrease item spawns, but he does plan to “balance” the value of individual items better. This includes making things like melee viable again, and fixing PvP/bases. He’s also stated somewhere that he plans to better balance the Inventory system[1], and that he plans to expand upon Unturned 3’s game mechanics to be more challenging, skill-based, and/or rewarding.
Specific changes in Unturned 3 in the past that were done as compromises to try and move towards a more hardcore feeling most notably include making guns and ammunition spawn less commonly naturally, and adding two more weapon calibers (the high calibers).
So yeah, some of it probably is an assumption, but it’s a fairly good assumption to make based on Nelson’s current (publicly stated) vision.
Fair enough. Based on everything Nelson has planned for more challenging gameplay, It’d reasonable to say that the item spawns are going to be tweaked and reduced.
That’s not the only balancing feature, and making something rare can be part of balancing it. If everything was common everywhere, there would be no loot progression, and the game would be really easy. Part of the balancing of the 3.X sniper rifles was that they only used rare ammunition. People should really stop saying “It’s balanced because it’s rare” every time anyone mentions item rarity.