[LONG POST]Discuss about the gun and other systems

[Kylie]

Alright
cracks knuckles
Let’s get started shall we?

@Awbee

Realism eventually brings balance and fun

Wrong. Realism in games is different than balance and fun. It’s a game after all. We don’t want too much realism. And realism doesn’t mean fun at all. Because if you want realism, i can simply shoot someone’s hands and let them live, they won’t be able to do anything if that mechanic was implemented.

@Awbee

bigger gun is not always better

Not always. But it sure as hell is most of the time.

@Awbee

I hate CS:GO’s spray pattern

Tbh, no one likes recoil but it’s something we have to deal with so that guns won’t be laser weapons. I’d suggest that most of the recoil on light rifles would be vertical with 5% of random deviation. And heavy, hard-hitting rifles will have more of a horizontal kick to it alongside the vertical recoil.

@Awbee

Every guns should be 1-bullet headshot.

That just wouldn’t be fun at all. Hence my claim “realism isn’t always fun” because say you’re minding your own business then someone with a colt snipes you from behind a tree and everything you’ve been working for for the past 2 weeks is gone. Again, not fun at all.
If you want it to be so realistic, why not shoot the heart and kill unarmored players with 1 hit? Or shoot anyone’s feet so everything becomes a fucking nightmare for the guy. Or shoot his hands and make him into CSGO spectator, unable to do anything except move. All these can be done with 1 shot each.

@Awbee

Every semi or burst-fired gun(even with Automatic gun with Semi selectors) should be fired without delay

I kinda agree on this tho. Your gun should shoot as fast as you can click the mouse. However, on burst mode, the 3 bullets won’t fire completely if you don’t keep the trigger pressed. So tapping with burst mode won’t do any good.

@Awbee

Make a hitbox for helmet

I would agree on this, but not the “1 hit kill to the face with any gun” crap. The only things that should kill with one hit regardless are crossbows and snipers. The rest need at least 2 bullets on unarmored players.

@Awbee

Make pistols’ draw and aiming time faster, and rifle makes it slower.

I do agree on this. Pistols are smaller and more compact therefore easier to handle and draw, which i would say takes around 1 second. But drawing a Maplestrike would take around 2~3 seconds

That is all I have to say

[Awbee]

Ehm.

You seems reasonable and logical, but some of them are missing from my quote.

@Kylie

Realism eventually brings balance and fun “if it’s based on the start.”

That was my actual point, man. Simulation or Realistic games have their own realistic features. I mean, “based on the start”, that being said, basically realistic or simulated games are fun.

Here’s an example

War Thunder: Realistic or Simulation mode, and their own damaging model

ArmA 3: Simulated Ballistics, optional Ace mod

Escape from Tarkov: Limited FoV(Field of View), light system, scope system, Armor Plate and Helmet, and high pistol damage, and so on.

America’s Army: Proving Grounds: “Gun mount(Supported position) on barricade” systems, High recoil that not-easily uncontrollable, Ballistics, Reviving system, suppression, high damage, and so on.

DayZ: Simulated body system, hard to loot items, having a durability for bullets, Ballistics, and so on.

@Kylie

It’s a game after all. We don’t want too much realism. And realism doesn’t mean fun at all. Because if you want realism, i can simply shoot someone’s hands and let them live, they won’t be able to do anything if that mechanic was implemented.

I had to compromise with balancing but wanted to suggest more realistic things, you know.

How about this? If you got shot by the leg you cannot move faster, arms make you aim harder, Body makes you harder to breath and sprint.

I don’t want “blind and deaf or disabled” people, because nobody should be disabled…

@Kylie

I’d suggest that most of the recoil on light rifles would be vertical with 5% of random deviation. And heavy, hard-hitting rifles will have more of a horizontal kick to it alongside the vertical recoil.

Good idea but people hates RNG stuff.

Usually every gun have straight and Top-right recoil when you shoot a gun with bladed-off(traditional) stance.

Also, you should read this part:

@Awbee

fourth: High-recoil for automatic guns.

3.0’s gun recoil is very easily controllable, so if there’s the high-recoil but moderate-controllable recoil, it should be fine.

Recoil control and aiming skills would be a pure skills to fight… Just like the America’s Army: Proving Grounds.

Note: I hate CS:GO’s spray pattern supporters or Random recoil supporters.

I’ll add some sentence on the main post that recoil control and accuracy should be seperate.

@Kylie

If you want it to be so realistic, why not shoot the heart and kill unarmored players with 1 hit? Or shoot anyone’s feet so everything becomes a fucking nightmare for the guy. Or shoot his hands and make him into CSGO spectator, unable to do anything except move. All these can be done with 1 shot each.

Once again, compromise.

@Kylie

However, on burst mode, the 3 bullets won’t fire completely if you don’t keep the trigger pressed. So tapping with burst mode won’t do any good.

That’s what i talking about! Thanks.

@Kylie

which i would say takes around 1 second. But drawing the Maplestrike would take around 2~3 seconds

That’s quite slow… how about 0.7 sec for pistol and 1.4 sec for rifles?

Whenever I have a time, I’ll edit my post cuz i’m freaking r-tarded for posting with mobile device.

[anon24515308]

@Kylie

I do agree on this. Pistols are smaller and more compact therefore easier to handle and draw, which i would say takes around 1 second. But drawing a Maplestrike would take around 2~3 seconds

That’s really slow, especially since you can’t keep your weapon out when climbing a ladder, which could have zombies waiting at the top. Although if there are holsters that drastically decrease draw times, or if we are able to have a weapon equipped while climbing, I guess it could be okay.

[KingFrog]

Your 1 bullet headshot isn’t realistic either. irl a headshot from an Ak is survivable (in certain areas). Especially a pistol, yet you would bleed and die while your knocked out.

[anon24515308]

A single shot from anything of equal or greater power to that of a .22 LR to the head is potentially fatal, but to even attempt to realistically cover all of the factors that would affect it would be quite impractical.

[GreatHeroJ]

Yes. I mean, unless Nelson implements angles of deflection and effective armor thickness and all that, even the alternatives to this suggestion will be hard to pull off.

[Awbee]

Can you explain that more specifically?

[Awbee]

Give me a reason or citation to believe it

[GreatHeroJ]

Well, for starters, if you’ve ever played Escape From Tarkov (which is hella realistic/immersive), unarmored headshots are one-hit kills for obvious reasons, but with certain armor/gun/ammunition combinations, you can survive headshots from a wide array of guns. Including pretty much any pistol (excluding ones like the SR1MP Gyurza because it pierces armor.)

And the devs are massive gun nuts with a massive understanding of IRL guns/ballistics.

IRL helmets are able to stop a lot of small-caliber bullets such as hollow point or pistol caliber, but against mid-caliber rifle ammunition they can typically only deflect it at certain angles due to an increase in effective armor at an angle. This is the main purpose of helmets in open warfare: deflecting glance shots. This is also why a lot of military operators IRL choose to just wear caps - helmets are heavy, hot, and ineffective to AP/high-caliber rounds.

[Awbee]

@GreatHeroJ

IRL helmets are able to stop a lot of small-caliber bullets such as hollow point or pistol caliber, but against mid-caliber rifle ammunition they can typically only deflect it at certain angles due to an increase in effective armor at an angle. This is the main purpose of helmets in open warfare: deflecting glance shots. This is also why a lot of military operators IRL choose to just wear caps - helmets are heavy, hot, and ineffective to AP/high-caliber rounds.

Ugh, hey, You’re wrong.

Apparently the U.S. Army’s helmet, ACH, can block the Dragonov’s bullet.

Lucky Marine Survives Sniper Headshot By Inches In Afghanistan

Non-penetration, not ricochet.

And… can you use the word “Ricochet” instead of deflect?

Note: Navy uses the same one as the Army one

[KingFrog]

Look at the grade of most civilian armor, it is usually rated for 44 magnum.

[Fallout_48]

uh i’m not trying to get into the whole realism what should/shouldn’t be debate but this is what i think:

1. buff pistols
   yes they’re compact but they’re virtually untouched when you can slug around a SMG or a shotgun in your second weapon slot.

2. remove/rework the sharpshooter & dexterity skills
   with the right attachments and max sharpshooter you can make recoil on some guns practically non-existent, you shouldn’t be able to morph a Maplestrike into a laser by killing a few zombies.

[Kylie]

@anon24515308

Although if there are holsters that drastically decrease draw times

Since nelson already gave out the stats thing. Maybe find a pistol holster that decreases draw time by 50%
Or a certain glove that makes your draw weapons 20% faster

[GreatHeroJ]

I believe that’s what pistol holsters are for to begin with. He’s also confirmed that holsters will exist in 4.0.

[GreatHeroJ]

Oof.

Sorry, I typically use the term ricochet, being a former WoT player, but today I decided to be less repetitive.

[Kylie]

Awesome
With pistol holsters and the specified gloves, you’d draw a pistol basically in 0.4 seconds (based on the stats that i just came up with)

[Awbee]

It’s okay btw I used to be a WoT player but now I’m a WT player

[Armaros]

WT pros: Gameplay mechanics

WT cons: need a 300 IQ to figure out how to use the research system in your first week

WoT/WoWs/WoWp pros: simple UIs and menus to navigate

WoT/WoWs/WoWp cons: all but one are essentially dead

If they merged I’d be over the fucking moon (considering they pick and choose the best features from each game)

[anon24515308]

I know that holsters are planned, that’s why I mentioned them in the first place.
I think it’s a bit strange to have gloves that makes you able to draw weapons faster. Gloves might make you slower, and some gloves might have less or even none of that effect, but unless there’s silly like magnetic gloves, I don’t see how they would decrease equip times.
I’d rather have pistols just be small enough to fit in better holsters than have a substantially shorter draw time than larger weapons, since a pistol and a musket both would have long draw times from a backpack.

[Awbee]

@Kylie

That just wouldn’t be fun at all. Hence my claim “realism isn’t always fun” because say you’re minding your own business then someone with a colt snipes you from behind a tree and everything you’ve been working for for the past 2 weeks is gone. Again, not fun at all.

Well, you know what? EVERY COMPETITION is relative, and contradiction, sometimes even hypocrite.

I’ll make one example as you wrote

Sniped with colt and achieved one-hit-headshot:
OMG YEAH TODAY IS MY LUCKY DAY AND I’M SO PRO
Get sniped with it:
THIS GAME IS TRASH AS FREAK!! WTH I WON’T PLAY THIS GAME

Here’s some funny examples imo

CSGO VERSION

Winning in CSGO:
Well, Look at that! I have great kills and low deaths, and the enemies are filled with bottom fraggers! I AM PRO!
Losing in CSGO:
OMG MY TEAM IS SO RETARDED UGH I CANNOT PLAY WITH THESE TEAMMATES

WAR version

Winning in war:
OMG we are the heroes and veterans, Enemies are trash!
Losing in war:
WTF MY CORPSMAN IS AN IDIOT AND WE ARE TOTALLY, AND ROYALLY F-ED UP!(TARFU)

WAR THUNDER

Winning:
Well, I’m a great tank ace and enemies are chickens! Let’s get the medal!

Losing:
OMG WHERE’S MY TEAM! JESUS FREAKING CHRIST NO ONE CAPS THE POINT AND MY TEAM IS SO n00b