Lucifer Effect is a big issue: ideas to reduce it in Unturned

[anon24515308]

@Number_one

You probably have wondered before: ‘Why are there no hard mode servers?’.

I can’t speak for everyone, but what I’ve been wondering is why there are still people who think Unturned II is supposed to fill the same niche as the original Unturned.

@Number_one

No normal Unturned player wants a hard mode server, that’s why.
They prefer the PvP aspect of the game, hence the kits, TP, rocket, economy, etc.
Nobody wants to deal with the zombies and environment as though they were actual threats, nobody besides an esoteric amount of Unturned players who actually bother to frequent these forums.

The common community won’t care.

The majority of the community won’t care about the environmental experience that Nelson wants to create, only about the PvP experiences they create with eachother, which is (one of the reasons) why he’s choosing to separate the game that he wants to create (Unturned II) from the game that he has already made (Unturned versions 1 through 3).

[Pesticide]

[Pesticide]

can’t wait for somebody to suggest a fallout 76 duel accept or decline thing. If somebody does suggest, you do are have the stupid.

[calamari]

Honestly I think this whole thread is stupid, I am probably gonna mute it after this comment. Just dumb ideas to fix such a non issue its sad. They lost one to many maplestrikes I guess

[RainOfPain125]

I used to talk a crazy ton on the issue of players KOSing like mad crazy. You know, considering I ran essentially the only non-KOS survival group. I can’t find any of my posts, but they all boiled down to the one simple idea of the Prisoner’s Dilemma and how seemingly no matter what players will always be inclined to do what they obviously think will get them the best as an individual rather than a group. If you upsize / scale this up, groups do what is best in their own interests rather than cooperating with one another - even though cooperation would mean more spoils.

You can learn about Prisoner’s Dilemma here, and a more advanced thought of the dilemma here

I’ve completely forgot my solutions to the problem, but, most of the ideas throughout your post seem OK. Though I hate videos like the Dayz friendly Experiment. It’s a experiment without a constant variable, and has very little data (trials) done. If that makes sense.

The whole “communication is key” part is the main separation amongst players. For my group, despite being friendly individuals, we immediately KOS non-english players. Obviously we can’t be friendly to people that we can’t properly communicate with. This is an unavoidable barrier to communication in literally any game, and a game mechanic tweak will never fix this. Though ignoring different languages then yes, communication is effective.

Everyone has noticed this trend in Unturned. When you start off as a naked looting a town other people within the town usually are also naked, and never bother you. Sometimes they do out of plain boredom, but for me we simply wave and loot separately. However, in late game when people are fully decked out players will always KOS - seemingly in fear of loosing their loot. Of course it may be just for fun, but everyone loves loot, and nobody likes to loose it.

The solution could be to make looted players feel more comfortable when confronting other groups of players or even lower looted players. A ton of my group members hate trying to be friendly because they go about it wrong - they give low looted players the chance and means to kill them, such as getting close and friendly to a noob with a masterkey.

Players don’t want to take the time and effort of “being friendly” the correct way - being far away, talking out loud over a mic, and making sure they’re safe. Players can almost 100% guarantee their protection by simply keeping their stealth and avoiding you, or using their stealth to the advantage of killing you. Giving up the stealth to try and be friendly to you in a game where people can find one-shot guns in civilian towns sounds like a bad alternative.

Another problem is a lot of players may not see the incentive to be friendly. So what? I’m being friendly, giving this noob free loot, and in return he runs off? To me I see being friendly as just my personality. I love being helpful, conversating on forums, contributing to the game and groups. I like to recruit players and make them my friend. I’ve met nearly 90% of my good online friends from being friendly to them. But for the average player being friendly probably isn’t a solution or even a choice due to external factors, like not having a microphone, etc.

[RainOfPain125]

Now to actually address what I see.

@CapoFantasma97

Teamwork based Actions : actions that require the need of another player. This could be done by making some critical healing items much more efficient when another one is applying it to you and for a selected few even mandatory (after all having someone else is objectively better than self medicating when dealing with wounds or broken bones, and a few medical procedures can’t be done alone), locked loot rooms that require 2 players to open (the classic double keycard doors), lifting upside down vehicles, cooperative building, heavy/big items lifting and carrying, etc;

Nelson would not approve of this, at least in my mind. He wants the game to be just as enjoyable and full of content as it would be for someone in a 30-man zerg or a lonesome freelancer survivor (atleast from what I think). Though I made a post regarding team-based work and the “evolution” and development of civilizations in Unturned II (which nelson liked… so its nice to know he’s probably thinking about it). Though I think it is neat.

@CapoFantasma97

Ability/Crafting Specialization done well : if there will be a skill or craft learning system here too, surely one can’t get everything. By placing a proper cap on the maximum “allocated points”, having a small group is beneficial as each person is able to specialize in one field, like vehicle repairing, crafting heals, and so on. For this purpose, I don’t think that combat based skills should be a thing, or if they would, they should be handled separately from the “utility” ones. It would be just annoying having to choose between having a steadier hand when shooting or crafting a piece of transmission to repair the group’s truck;

I always loved the idea of players not being able to be “super soldiers” and recently I made a post to sort of counter that regarding genetics. I heavily dislike games where everything can be maxed out, especially in Unturned 3.0’s case. I even made a post about how I think ‘maxing out’ things could be avoided by making experience and traits more Exponential instead of in a Linear fashion - which would be a viable alternative to what you’re suggesting (you suggest points and having a cap, while Exponential would not exactly introduce such a cap). But I agree with most points.

@CapoFantasma97

Less focus on Long Range Engagements : sniping from a kilometer away doesn’t give any satisfaction for anyone. Maybe the shooter in the boredom, roofcamping. The game can be more focused on closer interaction without being detrimental for sniper/scout/marksman players. Instead of putting 8x scopes, make up to 4x. I see the ballistics idea in the wishlist and that’s nice;

I agree that lowering long-range capability would obviously bring players closer, and would give them the chance / opertunity to conversate or reason. But as said in my earlier comment, high looted players are too scared and too looted to bother being friendly (usually). Also I never really use any scopes higher than 4x lol.

@CapoFantasma97

Make Sharing Items easier : sharing is caring. Avoiding too many ammunition types makes the same bullets easier to use with more weapons that can be found around. As there’s an incredible amount of bullet standards, the idea of realistic ammunitions types maybe should be avoided, or it would be detrimental to weapon variety too. Just think how russian rifles have different calibers than the world standards. So maybe it could be like Heavy, Medium, Light, Shells, Precision bullet types, color coded and with varying models. Which would be even more pleasing and in line with the generally unrealistic style of the game. Splitting stacks should be quick and easy. Instead of dropping items, there could be a “trade” function, where it opens up a trade window, which would make sharing items easier, quicker and safer. After all, to give the car key to your friend you don’t throw it somewhere near him so he can pick it up, you give it to him directly.

You want less ammo types? I think more ammo types would encourage more sharing. Players in groups would find all types of different ammo, and would trade with one another. Though this doesn’t have much at all to do with being friendly - as purely random people definitely won’t be trading anytime soon. I never trade with randoms to begin with.

@CapoFantasma97

Applied in a simpler and not annoying way in Unturned, when a player dies and dies only, most of their items in the whole inventory should get applied damage.

Huh. Sounds sorta neat, not sure how well that would go, though.

@CapoFantasma97

This means that hoarding weapons and powerful items is much more difficult and that players need to actual scavenge, repair and so on instead of just spraying someone and grabbing their stuff.

Why would this stop people from ‘spraying’ or hoarding stuff on them? You spray someone, they die, their loot gets damaged. You snipe one-shot head-shot someone, their loot is still damage just as equally as before. That wouldn’t stop spraying. Also, carrying tons of things and having their be degraded on death isn’t an inconvenience for you, it’s an inconvenience for the player that kills you - but you portrayed it as if it’s supposed to be bad for the player hoarding.

@CapoFantasma97

Secondly, having a speech bubble briefly hover above someone’s head when chatting and using quick messages would greatly help with quick reaction

I’d rather not have a big floating bubble on my head for players to see while being stealthy. Sometimes I work with nakeds and I can’t talk out loud so I must type.

@CapoFantasma97

Frankly, abuse of global chat can be quite annoying too and ruin the immersion, to which maybe it should be set a small timer between posts to reduce traffic.

Although this of course makes sense, global chat is obviously fundamental to how servers work and is necessary. There are already plugins to prevent chat spam (IE, a small timer between posts)

[RainOfPain125]

Another side note: A little solution to the problems is to have proper in-game groups. The current system for 3.0 is not worthy and has it’s downsides, such as the owner of the group not also being the owner amongst his 4 other Gold characters, and in-game groups have the major disadvantage of not being able to kick offline members. It also could have a better UI, but thats just my opinion. By making it easier for players to join groups and begin effectively communicating and working together it would allow players to get together and team more fluently.

[ArcticArcher]

I like what your saying. I think that if warfare/skirmishes are more methodical I.E you have a base and they have a base with stuff you want you go and raid it and fight for the better supplies. It shouldn’t just be you see a random dude and go after him. What if he can provide you useful information or wants to be your friend. My rule is don’t engage unless engaged. Although that ends up with me dead a lot due to the current PVP system if the pvp and guns change like they’re supposed to I wont be dead before I can react hopefully. Basically what I’m saying is right now players just randomly kill each other regardless of the loot they have.

[CapoFantasma97]

I was just thinking, something games so far haven’t explored is a “collective server effort” for things beneficial for everyone. For example, restoring power to a structure or city. The Turned could periodically sabotage those objectives in planned hordes (like every full moon), requiring players to defend collectively the objective or redo those if successfully destroyed again.

[ArcticArcher]

I think that it’s definitely a great idea. This idea is often in PVE games or some PVP games but only rly amongst clans/ IRL friends. I think bringing friendly events to a PVP game not just for small teams would be awesome.

[Pesticide]

yeah and then them in a disagreement and beating each other like this for a weapon
…
or even like this

[Mercury]

The only issue is that you get a negative rep so easily, it is almost impossible to gat a good rep on a pvp server. Because even defending yourself from a player who shot at you, but hasn’t hit you will get you a bad rep. Hopefully 2 will get an improvement in rep system. Then your idea would work.

[CapoFantasma97]

I actually don’t think that there ever will be a properly working rep system, as it’s completely arbitrary and no algorithm can judge a good or bad action.

So far in Unturned the reputation system has been just a gimmick for a concept that just doesn’t work and has never been reworked or used for anything. Rather, people are more than happy to get a “bandit” emblem that shows their pvp skills.

[Mercury]

Do you mind if i make a post about this one, compiling the ideas of everyone in a post so people can read it, i have a draft made.

[tymekx0]

@CapoFantasma97

the item they’re carring in that particular hit spot get ruined or destroyed. Applied in a simpler and not annoying way in Unturned, when a player dies and dies only, most of their items in the whole inventory should get applied damage.

If you think about it this raises pvp skill ceiling.
Hitting consistent headshots would reward you with better loot drops,
Precise hits to weakpoints would be rewarded

[tymekx0]

Do you consider killing sentient being regularly?
Real humans have morals/feelings/brainchemicals

[Azzaholic]

sounds like the same thing that everyone else has been saying for months.

[Pero2635]

@Mercury

The only issue is that you get a negative rep so easily, it is almost impossible to gat a good rep on a pvp server. Because even defending yourself from a player who shot at you, but hasn’t hit you will get you a bad rep. Hopefully 2 will get an improvement in rep system. Then your idea would work.

Thats not true

3.17.1.0 Update Notes

Improvements:

-Improved missing a shot/swing that travelled within 4 meters of a player to mark you as an aggressor if not under attack.
-Improved using lockpick/detonator/grenade to mark you as an aggressor if not under attack.

[CapoFantasma97]

The reputation system makes no sense in the first place. It’s a number and title that is exclusively cosmetic and the factors that modify it can’t discern when it’s a positive or negative thing. People that care about it just want to flash a bandit badge in the player list to look seasoned and strong.

[Pesticide]

@CapoFantasma97

The reputation system makes no sense in the first place

yeah it does. you kill somebody and gain reputation. whats not to understand from that?

@CapoFantasma97

the factors that modify it can’t discern when it’s a positive

Yes, it can discern when its a positive action. Somebody shoots at you, you take damage, and gain positive rep when you kill him. Unless you die to him and well you don’t gain any from it. This also helps with Quests because in order to receive better quests, you need good rep which you get from low tier quests.

@CapoFantasma97

the factors that modify it can’t discern when it’s a Negative

Kill somebody out of the blue, earn bad rep, have a title and have better players come after you. its simple. and sure as you said before,

@CapoFantasma97

People that care about it just want to flash a bandit badge in the player list to look seasoned and strong.

yes, because you are feared in the server. you dont want anybody coming after you, or raiding, you, or trying to negotiate a deal or peace shit. They know that if they come towards you, they will be shot and killed on sight.