Permanent Character system // Death mechanics // Skill system: an in-depth view

Unturned II U4 Discussion
1

Here’s my take on what the skill system/professions as well as a Permanent character and new mechanics for Unturned II should look like, there’s a short and crisp TL;DR at the end for the lazy.

1 . Permanent character system:

  • This system follows the groundwork of permadeath as seen in many roguelikes. Players will have to create a unique character before joining a server which has this option enabled.

  • The character will be unique in the sense that:
    a) Players can customize their looks-hair,skin tone,gender etc.
    b) Players can customize their skills, which will be covered in depth in the next section.

  • If the Player dies in the server, his Character associated with that server will die too, losing:
    a) All skillpoints
    b) All Reputation
    c) All questlines, etc.

Additionally, there needs to be a proper death mechanic in the game too to go with this:

2 . Death mechanics:

  • Respawn time for death by TURNED:
  1. Formula: 60+ 14*lifespan seconds. (lifespan is in hours.)
  2. Example: If a character was alive for 5 hours before dying to a Turned, he’d have a respawn timer (before being allowed to make a new character and play on the server again) of 60+70 = 110 seconds.
  • Respawn time for death by PLAYER:
  1. Formula: 60+ 21*lifespan seconds. (lifespan is in hours.)
  2. Example: If a character was alive for 5 hours before dying to a Player, he’d have a respawn timer (before being allowed to make a new character and play on the server again) of 60+105 = 165 seconds.
  • Respawn time for death by ENVIRONMENT/MISC:
  1. Formula: 60+ 7*lifespan seconds. (lifespan is in hours.)
  2. Example: If a character was alive for 5 hours before dying to the environment, hunger/thirst or any other miscellaneous death source(animals included), he’d have a respawn timer (before being allowed to make a new character and play on the server again) of 60+35 = 95 seconds.

NOTE: Having a base (as in an equivalent of the bedroll in unturned 3.0) set up will reduce all respawn times by 20% or 25 seconds, whichever value is greater. And also grant the option of respawning at base instead of the wild.
side note: respawn time with bed for death by player, when victim was alive for 24 hours = 564-113 seconds = 451 seconds. Thus bed is almost a necessity when a Player decides to settle down and run a base, like it should be.

Q. Why should there be the permanent character system?

  1. Immersion
  2. Amazingly vast scope for roleplayability.
  3. Adds the complexity needed in the character and death mechanics, which it was current lacking.
  4. It is a very flexible system, with a LOT of room for modding, future updates, creative skillsets, etc.

Q. Why should there be the death system you’re proposing?

  1. Tackles the problem of unbalance between people with a strong base
  2. The longer someone is alive, the more they are penalized for it
  3. Actually gives people raiding a base more time and space, especially those of big bandits who’ve been alive for a long time
  4. The longer a player plays, the less aggressive and risk taking they’d become due to their high respawn times, thus significantly reducing fights and encouraging more survival which is what the game needs.

3 . Skill system:

  • Skill system and Permanent character are complimentary to each other.

Without going in depth into each of the professions, just to give y’all an idea of what it should be like I’ll be taking 3 professions into consideration, namely: Lumberjack, Police Officer, Doctor.

  • Each profession has 1 inbuilt trait and the rest are handpicked by the player:
  1. Lumberjack: Chop trees 25% faster (trees are chopped 25% faster)
  2. Police Officer: Gun handling increased by 15% (crosshair radius becomes 15% smaller)
  3. Doctor: Medical proficiency increased by 30% (heals 30% more)

Now, the interesting bit:

  • When making a character, first step is to select a profession, then the next step is to ‘build’ your character using available skill points.

  • When building a character, every player starts with 4 skill points.

  • Selecting a good trait will take away skill points.

  • Selecting a bad trait will grant skill points.

Some examples for good traits:

  • Format: #.(Name): (Benefit) --- [Skillpts required]

1) Hoarder: +10% inventory capacity — [3]

2) Athletic: +10% movement speed, +15% running speed — [3]

3) Warm blooded: +20% resistance to cold — [2]

4) Brute force: +25% melee damage — [4]

5) Deep sleeper: -30% respawn time reduction — [5]

Some examples for bad traits:

  • Format : #.(Name): (Handicap) --- [Skillpts granted]

1) Panicked: -10% accuracy — [1]

2) Frail: +15% damage taken — [2]

3) Munchies: Hunger increases 20% faster [3]

3) Deaf: No sounds — [7]

4) Blind: No vision — [10]

Q. Why?

  1. Creates more diversity both in terms of uniqueness of each individual player as well as experience/gameplay

  2. Amazingly huge scope for roleplayability

  3. Way more immersion

  4. Players get to be ‘strong’… but at a cost, thus balancing it out.

  5. Better than the legacy system of being able to level up all skills with, a small discount on the skills related to your profession

Q. Will this work?

Yes!! This system is used in Project Zomboid and that game does an amazing job with it, it’s a brilliant system to check balance and make sure everyone is on the same level.

TL;DR

  1. Permanent character death similar to that seen in roguelikes
  2. Respawn time varies depending on:
    a) Lifespan
    b) Source of death
  3. Skill system works in a way that players first select a profession with a single skill. Then they ‘build’ their character by selecting good traits and bad traits, starting with 4 skill points…
    a) Good traits take up skill points.
    b) Bad traits grant skill points.
    .
    .

With that said, I conclude my post. Thank you everyone for reading this far, feedback in the comments would be very much appreciated <3

4 Likes
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I usually see the bright side in most posts. But mate, this would suck.
The skills and traits I made a post on and that is the only good thing.

How annoying would it be to be killed after you put a tone of time into the game. It would ruin it, and I think it is that bad multiplayer would be unusable. People would die and never join the server out of rage and who wants to wait half an hour after dying.
Imagine putting hours into a server only to die once.
If you like the project zomboid System play that but don’t try turn unturned into it.

I feel bad saying this but this feels like the worst suggestion I have ever EVER seen.

2 Likes
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Sorry you feel that way, but:

There are a lot of mature audience out there that wants a slower, more hardened gameplay rather than dealing with people respawning every 30 seconds. You’re not in that bracket though so I understand where you’re coming from, because Annoyance is subjective and while some person rages over a 15 minute respawn time and throws tantrums and cries, another simply goes and makes himself a quick snack before coming back and making a new character and getting back into playing.

Firstly, let’s be realistic here.
a) There can very, very easily simply be a cap for respawn time at 600 seconds or so. (you might whine about that number being high too, sadly)
b) There are plenty of people out there that enjoy the ‘permadeath’ system and the risk factor embedded respawn times.
c) In all scenarios, even to get a 600 second respawn time, a player would’ve to be alive for more than 24 hours, which given the state of people’s kos lurking mindset(which my suggestion might improve upon) is a tough task, with an average person staying alive for a lot less than that. So in most cases you should be fine with a ~100 second respawn time.
d) At the best this can easily become a server wide option to enable (the permadeath), and respawn rates could be like this for hard gamemodes perhaps. This is if more people whine enough about being annoyed to death by having to wait for 10 minutes.

Looks like you weren’t around to see the target tracking scope suggestion.

No offense intended

2 Likes
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To start the only problem I have with the first part of the suggestion is that making a character every time you join would get a little annoying, especially if you are just jumping around trying to find a good server to play on.
But… as someone with a few hundred hours in C:DDA, a trait based system wouldn’t work. There will always be a “optimal” build in terms of the traits, with some traits being so bad that no amount of points recieved would balance it (an example in C:DDA would be illiterate) and ones that are so good that you almost always want to take them. Every one would take traits that make them faster/better at shooting, just like most people use the spec ops profession in 3.0, and I dont think it would add any diversity. I see no way of balancing traits so that there isnt an optimal build while keeping them interesting, and on top of that this could be replaced with a well made skill tree that allows players who are dedicated to playing on one server get the upper hand by allowing them to unlock skills that are similar to these traits, which imo is a good thing. It would add roleplayability but is that really something that needs to be integrated into the main game when roleplaying is usually not a vanilla thing?

Ah, memories…

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That’s a valid argument, though I see players taking up different traits too. This isn’t a MOBA where there’s a constant ‘meta’ where people will be like “oh man, i must compromise taking frail in order to get enough skillpts to take up accuracy and reloading because that so OP”. Yes, that will always be a thing if you’re a trigger happy person but I see people, specifically those in groups switching things up and assigning roles to each person based on which profession and traits they chose.

making a character every time you join would get a little annoying, especially if you are just jumping around trying to find a good server to play on.

well there could be an option in the main menu to make it so the game saves a certain character (i.e autopicks the profession and traits you’ve selected) so every time you don’t have to go through the efforts of making a new character if all you want to do is play the same character with the same traits.
ps- thanks for mentioning C:DDA, looks like a good game will check it out

6

You know, i this is just a really big improvement from previous sugestions on this topic, i think it could really work out well. Only thing that bothers me about these kinds of servers is that the player base usually is only big enough for one server and a half maybe. I think maybe giving a grace period of maybe 2 deaths would be fair just to make it so if you get a crappy spawn at the middle of the night you wont feel so scammed.

And the part where a bedroll would decrease your respawn time is a very well tested out mechanic and works really good in games such as ark, where you have a bedroll which you make with your hands, and the normal bed too, then you have a industrial kind of bed which will offer the best % of decreased time but also is really big making it hard to find space for.

But over all 10/10 sugestion

1 Like
7

ok, that death system just sounds like the most frustrating bullshit i’ve ever seen in my fucking life. almost 3 minutes to respawn because you’re good at the game? fuck off with that shit.

it wouldn’t be so bad if it was based off of player kills or something similar instead (and had an upper limit of course), but as you described it all it would do is kill this system before it was tried.

2 Likes
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Death sugestion really counters the whole spawn in, uppgrade exersice fully upp, find a hawkhound and hunt the people who killed you 20 secs after you died. Dying should be punishing, not some gimmicky “oh shit i died, guess i just have to kill that guy and ill have more stuff then i started with”

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frankly, losing literally everything including your quests is punishment enough, especially later on. i don’t need to stare at my corpse for the next 3 fucking minutes to feel like i fucked up.

1 Like
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Well first i would imagine you wouldnt have to stare at your corpse for 3 mins in this kind of gamemode, and second of all, losing “everything” isnt quite punishing when keep your skills, and still have the ability, to run from on side of the map to the other in 10 mins, and whilst running you can still find a gun, and have a really good chance at killing him.

The whole consept would make people so shy, you would never see people running in the middel of the road like you do now all the time.

11

ahem

,

165 seconds is barely under 3 minutes.

ahem

,

*traits.

also these “traits” don’t really sound that op, especially compared to the current system in 3.0.

i mean, you’d still be able to do that with this respawning. it’d just be really fucking annoying to do so.

honestly the respawning would probably just piss people off. i know it’d make me avoid these kinds of servers whenever possible.

1 Like
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When i said you wouldnt have to stare at your corpse, what i was reffering to, was that youd probably be thrown into some screen where you make a new character.

And these so called traits, are only bonuses with your current skills, traits would be invaluable, giving a “marathon runner” 10% longer sprint would make death rather punishing if you lose this.

And yes you would be able to prusuit your killer, after these 3 mins, but i know from experience, you can sort out your iventory, take the most valuable stuff and scrap the rest in bout 2 mins, and youl still be dead then, making death acctualy punishing, and not a gimmick.

13

ahem

,

literally no.

10% longer sprint isn’t that much. especially compared to the potential 100% longer sprint you can get in 3.0.

okay, so then you CAN’T run from one side of the map to the other and grab a gun in 10 minutes and still have a good chance of killing him? right?

at least try to be consistent, jeez.

14

These 3 mins of extra time, is absolutely priceless, and if you lose all your skills upon death aswell, that would result in death being basicly a restart with the exeption of your base, vehicles ect ect.

and 10% is acctualy alot if i have 110% and you have a 100,% no matter how far you run No matter where you hide, ill still be faster.

Passive buffs are incredibly hard to balance, when it comes to pvp. And if you get to keep skills and traits upon death, death is meaningless. Grinding exp is the real important part of the game, loot is super easy after you have your skills upp.

If you keep your skills, the killer basicly just blew his cover, and you can very often will still find and kill him, if you dont have a timer, and if you dont lose exp and traits.

1 Like
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And just a side note, even if you still cant make a new character before 3 mins, it doesnt mean you cant like have the sceen upp and put the traits and colors in ect ect, you just cant “make” him spawn

16

elaborate.

which i wouldn’t mind, honestly.

that doesn’t make it significant. that’s just obvious.

you said yourself that 2 minutes is more then enough to loot effectively and bail. you also said it’d take 10 minutes to get back. how exactly would you find them?

except…that’s literally what making a character is. deciding the traits and such. if it meant spawning the character, he should’ve said “before being allowed to spawn as a new character”.

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@Whistleblower what you’re doing right now is simply picking out the details and scrutinizing them whereas my point was to get the gist across.
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You’re looking at this from a biased point of view being that of 3.0. You’re corrolating whatever I’ve suggested in comparison with 3.0 mechanics (where there is literally 0 fucking diversity and everyone has literally ALL the fucking skills maxed because they’re a superhuman in a post apocalyptic world), while I’m suggesting this from the perspective of Unturned 2 being a survival game and how mechanics like these fit into a survival game. Sorry if you have to go through the incruciable pain of having to wait for 3 motherfucking minutes but if you’re telling me you find 3 minutes EXTRAAAAA FUCKIIING LOONG maybe you should reconsider your perspective on how long a time period as well as how fucking simple and most importantly, balanced. this mechanic is.
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You play on the server for 5 hours, have a nice cozy base, some raider shoots you in the head and you die. You have 3 mins before you respawn on your bed and fight back. These 3 minutes are priceless for the raider to raid your base, destroy storage containers etc. (but do think back to 3.0, since you’re comparing both, how much can be done in 3 minutes while raiding? maybe destroying a cluster of lockers with demo charges but do you have enough time to loot? that too only picking up the loot you want?).
This is a more balanced version as compared to: “Oh i died while being raided, lemme just wait 30 secs before i respawn in the safe room and grab a gun from the locker and surprise and kill the raider, who probably spent hours trying to craft all those raiding supplies like demo charges and probably ruin his day HAHAHAHAHH IM SO GOOD AT THIS GAMEEE”.
On an alternative, as the raider:
“Oh I’m about to raid this base, lemme just place a bed outside covered in a bush with a couple guns nearby so i can LITERALLY deliver an unstoppable force by respawning every 30 seconds with a gun and killing the base owner if i fail to do so in the 1st try”
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That …is… what …I meant. But I never thought anyone would get as much butt hurt over having to see his corpse for 3 minutes as you are. Sorry(?)

18

No, making the character is spawning him in, just choosing his traits is a obvious thing you should be allowed to do.

And when i say it takes 10 mins to run all the way, if you have a bed like any sensible human. it Will probably take 2-3, and if you get an extra 3 mins, its so priceless, the killer doesnt get scammed just because he put himself in a risky situation. I cant tell you how many times ive killed someone, just for them to come back before im done looting them.

10 mins - 2 mins because looting, and a 50/50 chance he has a bedroll anywhere in a nearby vicinity. A garauteed 3 minute pause is absolutely fair, isntead of the role of a dice unturned has now “he might be 10 mins away, or 50 secs”

So you dont think that, when i run after you, no matter where you are or how smart you are, i can still catch you because i didnt lost my 10% running, you dont think that is significant? I can always shoot you, but you always have to strive to out maneuver me?

19

sure, buddy.

,

no.

i was comparing the traits to 3.0 to demonstrate that keeping or losing the traits wouldn’t be a big deal. that’s all i was doing, and i know you know it.

there’s a point where you have to consider how much shit the average player (or in this case even a hardcore player) is willing to deal with. waiting 3 minutes just to be able to play the game again? i think most people wouldn’t put up with that shit, even your hardcore survival types.

aaaand false comparison. look back at the conversation. NEITHER OF US WERE TALKING ABOUT RAIDS. we were talking about literally any PVP situation that DOESN’T INVOLVE BASES, AND TO DEMONSTRATE YOUR POINT, YOU TALK ABOUT THE ONE SITUATION THAT INVOLVES BASES. at least make an ATTEMPT to understand the context of my request.

i will give you one thing, though - raids are probably the one situation where the longer respawn times are a significant benefit. but again, there are better ways to balance out that respawn time without tying it to lifespan and not giving it any upper limit.

do you talk to people?

that’s literally not what making a character is.

why would you put your bed outside a random town? and don’t say this is a raid. you are not describing a raid. at all.

this seems less like an issue with the respawn timer and more an issue of map sizes and the spawn system - something that will (hopefully) be solved in U2 with bigger maps and thus more spawns.

also, is a 3 minute pause really fair to someone who just got shot from bumblefuck nowhere? like, “oh, i got shot in the head from space, guess i get to sit in front of my corpse/in a character screen for 3 minutes”.

here’s another thing - who’s to say the guy you’re hunting down won’t just “no u” you into oblivion every time?
not to mention, how’ll you catch up to them if you don’t know where they are? i guess you could just look everywhere, but you’d have to get kinda lucky to do that (admittedly in 3.0 the maps are so small that it’s not that hard to get that lucky, but we’re talking about U2, which at this point is anyone’s guess in this department).

20

Allright, lets say you got shot from bumblefuck nowhere, isnt that your own mistake at the end of the day?

And btw “who puts a bedroll outside a random town” basicly anyone who plays normal or hardcore with the intent of playing for a long time. if i go looting milli base, i place bedroll and a gun with the holder thingy. Same with maf house, same with dead zones. My point is you can either be Lucky and have 10 mins, which he still can easly track you down in, or you can be really deep in it, and he spawned maybe 800 m away.

Well i dont get “no u’d” into oblivion, if youre hunting someone you wait for him to go into his inventory, and with the 110% speed its a guaranteed shot in range (almost). Never blow your cover.

And if someone kills you, just look in the area right next to where you died 8/10 times youl find him.