Stamina and Guns

  • All weapons should have scope sway, regardless of whether they have iron sights or optical sights.
  • ADS should drain stamina.
  • At full stamina scope sway would be minimal, but as stamina drains, it would increase.
  • Drawing a bow, or shouldering a machine gun would drain stamina faster than aiming a pistol.
  • Players should be able to lessen the stamina drain by bracing their weapons against the ground, or cover. (ADS while prone or behind cover.)
  • Gun mounts (like bipods, tripods, and possibly shooting sticks) should mitigate the stamina draining.
  • Bipods should automatically deploy when ADS behind cover.
  • Tripods should be placeable mounts that eliminate stamina drain, but need to be placed, and fix the user’s position.
  • Some vehicles should have built-in gun mounts, on-par with tripods.
  • Maybe firing weapons (especially ones with high recoil) might drain stamina as well.

the scope sway one is alright i guess as long as it’s not too extreme

i don’t like the idea of ADS draining stamina. i mean it makes sense, but that seems like too much for 4.0. i can’t think of a single game that does it, including really realistic games (ARMA might do it, but i’m not sure). i guess maybe sway could slowly increase as you aimed for extended periods of time or something like that, but that’d have to be able to be counteracted by something like rising storm 2’s weapon deploying system (basically if your weapon is hovering over a piece of cover or the ground or something it gets stabilityism) in order to be enjoyable at all.

as for bipods deploying automatically…god no. that would be incredibly annoying to deal with. just make bipods work like insurgency (pressing a separate button while behind cover or prone deploys the bipod) or rising storm 2 (you can fold the bipod up and down - when the bipod is folded down, aiming automatically deploys it if possible, and when it’s up the weapon acts as if it doesn’t have a bipod at all [for the purposes of the example - in the game itself it actually effects sway and such but i’m not sure that matters). they should also just remove stamina draining (or i guess in my case weapon sway) entirely. tripods are really only used with stuff that you wouldn’t fire without one anyways, like HMGs (inb4 “but the stoner 63 had a tripod configuration” - yeah, it also had a helicopter gun configuration, guess how well that turned out? hint: ass).

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Might as well make voice chat drain stamina, otherwise you’ll produce strange heavy breathing recorded by Nelson which will interrupt whatever you’re trying to say

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I like that idea. If some extremely funny kid blaring “It’s Mining Day Bro” 24/7 they should be punished. But what will happen to text chat? Why can you talk to people several kilometers away from you?

Big weapons like a grizzly should drain lots of your stamina, do around 20-30 damage to you from impact, losing power the higher your sharpshooter skill is. At level 7 you take no damage.

You must really hate the stamina mechanics in 3.x
Cuz you are trying to demolish it with these ideas
Let’s get to the important bit…

I believe it’s already in 3.x so it wouldn’t be much of a problem. Agree

Absolutely not. What’s the point of sharpshooting if we’re gonna have scope sway AND stamina drainings at the same time? It should sway in it’s usual methods, but increase over time (as Whistle said).

Combining this with the previous, this would make the game rediculously and unnecessarily hard. When you’re aiming down sights, scope sway is the effect of you using your lungs which expand and contract your rib cage, therefore resulting in instability. When you hold your breath (using up stamina/breath), you aren’t using your lungs -> lungs not moving -> steady body -> steady aim.
Conclusion: Disagree

No. If you want the bow to be nerfed, then might as well give the player a little zoom as well as slow his/her movement speed to 50% or less when drawing a bow. If you want it to sway as well, sure, but not at the cost of stamina. Only when the player holds his/her breath should the stamina (or whatever it is) to deplete

Bipods are literally used to minimize the effort needed to keep the gun aimed at a certain point. With the bipod, realistically, there should be no weapon sway. If there was, it should only be seen when using a 20x scope.

We’re trying to minimize the “LMG MOUNTED AND LOADED!!!” action in 4.x. Tripods are only gonna be good for Miniguns, HMGs in general, or for using these guns on vehicles. Which are warfare-realted, something we don’t want.

What did i just say? But if you want these mounted guns so much, maybe 1 military vehicle can have a mount on it. But it comes empty. You have to put a specific gun on it if you wanna use it.

There’s a reason firearms were made in the first place. Because if you were using a sword and were bleeding out, you can’t fight. But now, all you have to do is aim, bend your index finger, and boom. So no. High recoil weapons already have their own drawbacks (the recoil itself)

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Wait

Hold on

Mhm almost there

Just a bit more

That’s totally balanced right? If this were to be implemented nobody would snipe at all unless they grind out levels to negate damage, which absolutely should not exist.

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I mostly agree with scope sway (as this is already a thing in Unturned 3), just not addition of ADS draining stamina and less stamina resulting in more sway. Scope sway is already capped by how much of a status bar you have left, so I don’t see a need for the “focus” efficiency to also be capped out at maximum stamina.

Grips should reduce scope sway, not a stamina drain. I’d totally agree with that part of the suggestion it if so.

Oops, I meant to say deploy when ADSing behind cover (like in Bf1) thanks for pointing that out.

The general purpose of my suggestion was to limit the run and gun, quick scope combat of PVP oriented FPSs, and to have the realistic limitations of things like trying to keep a bow drawn for fifteen minutes, or standing around with a AntiMateriel Rifle or Universal Machine Gun shouldered.
Plenty of weapons besides heavy machine guns can be fitted to various gun mounts, but they usually aren’t unless exceptionally high sustained or accurate fire is needed.
Players can already fire weapons from vehicles, in 4.X even the driver is planned to be able to. The reason for gun mounts in vehicles would be to allow players to use things like Universal Machine Guns, Light Machine Guns, AntiMateriel Rifles in vehicles without having to worry about stamina draining, because they can’t deploy a bipod, or tripod in vehicles.
(I also forgot to mention bracing weapons without bipods, but I’ll edit that into my original post)

Yeah, it would be a nerf to bows, but maybe with the modular weapons of 4.X, we could have takedown bows with different limbs.
For example:

  • limbs with a low draw weight would have comparatively low damage and stamina drain.
  • limbs with a high draw weight would have comparatively high damage and stamina drain.
  • limbs with cams and pulleys would have comparatively high damage, and low draw weight.

Oops, I meant to say deploy when ADSing behind cover (like in Bf1) thanks for pointing that out.

FOR WHAT

The general purpose of my suggestion was to limit the run and gun, quick scope combat of PVP oriented FPSs, and to have the realistic limitations of things like trying to keep a bow drawn for fifteen minutes, or standing around with a AntiMateriel Rifle or Universal Machine Gun shouldered.

you seem to propose really unfun ways of balancing things.

Players can already fire weapons from vehicles, in 4.X even the driver is planned to be able to. The reason for gun mounts in vehicles would be to allow players to use things like Universal Machine Guns, Light Machine Guns, AntiMateriel Rifles in vehicles without having to worry about stamina draining, because they can’t deploy a bipod, or tripod in vehicles.

but…you included bipods and tripods under gun mounts…and why wouldn’t you be able to put a tripod in the back of a truck or deploy a bipod on the hood while in the passenger seat? and again, nobody puts LMGs on tripods. you can, but there’s no reason to. also, if a bipod or tripod can’t be used on a vehicle, then what the hell can you put on it? and i’m assuming by “universal machine gun” you mean “general purpose machine gun”.

When the Dutch formed the concept, and the Germans employed it the concept was anglicized as Universal Machine Gun, but yes, it did eventually come to be known as General Purpose Machine Gun.
Not all vehicles have the space for a tripod mount.
While light machine guns may not generally have been deployed on tripods, they have largely been superseded by general purpose machine guns, which are designed to be employed as vehicle mounted, tripod mounted, bipod mounted, air-to-air, anti-air, and if need be fired from the hip or shoulder.
I don’t really see what would make it “unfun” to make different weapons fit different roles, if you want a powerful defensive gun, use a heavier weapon, if you want something you can run around with, find something lighter.

Since everyone is picking out the bad things, I am going to focus on what I liked.

I like the fact that you mentioned the shooting sticks, bipods and tripods being deployed onto surfaces/cover to increase gun stability.
I agree with the longer you aim in with a gun, the sway will increase a little.
In order to make this an enjoyable experience in the game, just ditch the stamina drain completely and just support deploying the guns and scope sway.

Strong work friend.

1 Like

When the Dutch formed the concept, and the Germans employed it the concept was anglicized as Universal Machine Gun, but yes, it did eventually come to be known as General Purpose Machine Gun.

irrelevant

Not all vehicles have the space for a tripod mount.

then what would they have space for, exactly?

While light machine guns may not generally have been deployed on tripods, they have largely been superseded by general purpose machine guns, which are designed to be employed as vehicle mounted, tripod mounted, bipod mounted, air-to-air, anti-air, and if need be fired from the hip or shoulder.

that’s…objectively false. LMGs are usually used at the squad level to suppress the enemy. GPMGs are usually vehicle or tripod mounted and in some cases used at the (i think) platoon level. either way, LMGs are used more often in squads then GPMGs since they’re lighter and provide mostly the same amount of suppressing fire, if not more due to the lighter ammo allowing more of it to be carried. GPMGs have not superseded LMGs at any level. if anything, LMGs superseded GPMGs in a few areas, and are now being superseded by automatic rifles (like the M27 IAR) in certain cases.

I don’t really see what would make it “unfun” to make different weapons fit different roles

that’s not the problem. that’s not even what you’ve suggested. what you’ve suggested is to make aiming and shooting take stamina. i don’t want to be unable to fucking sprint because i held my gun up for longer then you want me too.

1 Like

The light machine gun has been rendered obsolete due to the introduction of the universal machine gun/general purpose machine gun, and of the section automatic weapon/light support weapon/squad automatic weapon. The definition of automatic rifle is - shall we call it- contentious, the IAR has certain similarities to SAW/LSW concept, and I would argue, it has more in common with them than with the BAR and Chauchat. But all of that is beside the point. (Honestly I’d wish you stopped attempting to correct my terminology.)

The stamina drain would have to be quite slow, so as not to prevent sprinting unless one aims down sight for a pointless amount of time. In order for for the effect to actually matter, scope sway should take effect, even if only a small portion of stamina has been lost.

Why would you want to nerf bows in the first place? They’re not OP. If you just have the 50% when drawing a bow, it would be balanced enough if you’re gonna take into account the damage buff I want to give it. Because as of now, 1 hit to the head won’t kill you
So i don’t really understand why you’re nerfing it even more

I’d like it if bows could get 1 hit kills in 4.X, but Idk how they’ll be balanced. One shouldn’t need to keep a bow drawn for extended periods, and if you feel the need, a compound bow or crossbow would realistically serve that end better than long bows.

Compound bows and Crossbows are the go-to
And no one is gonna have the energy enough to hold down right click for 15 minutes. I’ve never encountered someone do that. It’s always quick draws and that’s it. Idk where you got the information that people draw the bow for too long. It’s simply exhausting to do irl (hold down right-click)

The light machine gun has been rendered obsolete due to the introduction of the universal machine gun/general purpose machine gun

hahahah no.

the GPMG has been around longer then the LMG, and yet the LMG has become more prominent over the years. that alone makes you look like a complete idiot.

The definition of automatic rifle is - shall we call it- contentious, the IAR has certain similarities to SAW/LSW concept, and I would argue, it has more in common with them than with the BAR and Chauchat.

i can’t even tell what you’re trying to argue here.

(Honestly I’d wish you stopped attempting to correct my terminology.)

i’m starting to remember why you’re annoying.

The stamina drain would have to be quite slow, so as not to prevent sprinting unless one aims down sight for a pointless amount of time.

or you could just…not. do that. at all.

In order for for the effect to actually matter, scope sway should take effect, even if only a small portion of stamina has been lost.

“Oh jeez, I sprinted for half a second! Now my arms are all shaky!”

again, you could just not have it effect stamina and only effect aiming sway.

  • The earliest machine guns which would eventually be known as heavy machine guns fired full powered rifle cartridges, and had features which heavily emphasized sustained fire over mobility; they were in general, belt-fed, tripod mounted, and water cooled.
  • Light machine guns were introduced as a more mobile counterpart to heavy machine guns, often being chambered in rifle cartridges, fired from bipods, fed via magazines, and cooled via exposure to the air.
  • Medium machine guns largely replaced heavy machine guns, being much the same, but replacing heavy water cooling systems, with simple air cooling.
  • General purpose machine guns were introduced to fill multiple roles, having bipods and light designs to allow them to be used in the role of light machine guns, having high rates of fire and provisions for mounting to allow them to be used in anti-air and air-to-air uses, belt feeds and quick change barrels to allow them to be used in the role of medium machine guns.
  • Squad automatic weapons, (or section automatic weapons in commonwealth armies, or light support weapons in the United Kingdom,) are generally lighter than GPMGs, and are designed to be capable of feeding from the standard magazines of the assault rifles carried by the regular infantry man.

If you sprint for half a second, it would only take half a second to recover