The problem with how Nelson is presenting Unturned II

The Start of a Problem


A road

Do you all remember “A road”? If you don’t here it is.


If you didn’t know anything about Unturned II, you’d probably think this is a nearly finished game, the only thing that looks off is the Gravel texture. This was March 2018. A few days later we get our first (and only, so far) look at Pineridge.


Around this time the Inventory system was shown off, the animations on the player were all finished.

Before “A road”

In Devlog 2 we got our first look at the player, we saw hoodies with moving parts, we saw the player responding to taking damage.
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In Devlog 4 we get our first look at the inventory, not anything special, but still nice looking.

January 2019, Devlog 18.


Lighting isn’t as good, but we have working guns and cars, people other than creators are getting access to the game, and everything looks cool. There’s a seasons system implemented, along with an improved snow system. And look at those guns, they fire independently and don’t share the same ammo pool, we’ve also been told that we’ll be able to use two different items at the same time, like a revolver and a knife. Not even big-budget games have things like this. The game might come out this year!

July 19th 2019, Devlog 24.


This is the CQC map, the building isn’t detailed and there are no trees anywhere.

This is the Inventory system.


Looks pretty bad ey? To someone who knows a thing or two about games in WIP/Alpha stages, this doesn’t raise too many, if any red flags. But to the average viewer, this looks bad. We’ve taken a step back from Devlog #4, 20 Devlogs later. Animations aren’t done anymore and the player is stuck in a T-Pose. We didn’t see stuff like this in Devlog #3 and #4.

The Big Issue


Nelson has shown off Unturned II as this game that looks nearly done. But now that he’s giving the demo out to more and more people, their slowly realizing it’s a skeleton. Which is why we’ve seen people say “Dead game” and have seen people complain about the lack of content, even though the game isn’t even at an Alpha stage yet. People were and still are expecting Pineridge even though the game isn’t anywhere near that stage yet.

A simple fix to this would make it very clear to the player base that this game isn’t even close to being considered a game. Showing Pineridge and “A road” off so early got people hyped, when there should be little to no hype being built at that point, as the game would have still taken a year or so before it comes out.

However there’s no good solution, we’ve already passed that stage and people have warped views on what is going on under the hood. The best thing to do is to try to correct these views. How do I propose this? I don’t, I’m not any good at coming up with solutions, so instead of doing what I should do, I want to know what you all think the best solution is.

I like this idea for the most part, as a lot of YouTubers showed off Pineridge without reading the majority/any of the blog post. And most people don’t read the blog posts. This is a foolproof way of getting the point across.

Most of the things that can be done boil down to idiot-proofing. Read over it a couple of times and try to figure out what could be interpreted in a way you don’t intend. For example; Back when Masterbundles were being introduced me and a few others (Including Danaby & a few members of the Rio team) thought Nelson was removing asset bundles from the game altogether. Instead, he made a far superior system.

If one person, especially one of high-regard or someone you think you can trust- get something wrong, you’re most likely going to believe the false statement. A ton of YouTubers make “Nelson Interviews” or “History of Unturned II” and usually at the end, they try to get in contact with Nelson to ask a question. Usually “Release Date?” Nelson’s common response is “Hey , no release date or ETA yet!” Personally, I’d say “The game isn’t even in Beta, I’m laying the groundwork still, I won’t be thinking about an ETA for a long time, check the blog if you want an insight into progress.” Probably the bluntest and situationally unaware thing you could say, but it gets the point across.

Domino Effect

After thinking for a while, the early unveiling of Unturned II has had way more of a negative effect than I ever could have imagined. When you look at most YouTubers, even our resident @HoldBaker, you see something a little concerning. “Waiting for Unturned II.” People have been waiting for Unturned II for years now, every update Nelson pushes for 3.x has the same stuff in the comments.
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It’s the same stuff, people aren’t happy with the game anymore because they know that something “So much better” is coming, but it’s not coming. At least not for a while. There’s nothing we can do at this point, it’s drilled into peoples heads that Unturned is a dead game, especially when all the content creators jump ship and the “Quality” multiplayer servers dwindle.

this thread is only big because of images

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I strongly agree with the fact that the game was over hyped in 2018 when we got the first look at Pineridge and over the time we got more hyped and then when the open beta came, it kind of died because we were expecting to see a lot more than what was presented to us…
It is a demo after all, meant to show off key features (or at least I think it is) that Nelson wants us to see and get a taste of what direction the game is going in.
There most likely are more things complete and Nelson is just not showing them off just quite yet.

I don’t know. I’m tired and I hope it made some sense

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I feel blind for not thinking much on all of this, so yeah I fully agree with everything said here.

One of my personal issues is the way he references the new game. As an active community member and manager I’ve been constantly reminding people that it’s a new game and informing them about the true name when they keep saying ‘4.0’. Nowadays I’m slightly disillusioned by the fact that the devlogs refer it as ‘4’ and the dev uses ‘4.x.x.x’ in its version notations which doesn’t make sense considering that nothing was even completed beforehand and the previous game (Notable all 3 versions) are way unrelated to Unturned II’s potential design. My skeptics also started when the subforums have been renamed to ‘U4’.

The above issue also plays a part in the wide spread misinformation that is present in the less vocal portion of the community. People are still saying ‘new update/version’ and I’ve seen several that think it’s still ‘4.0’ to them regardless.


Not to be too demanding, but I’m also fussed with the lack of media usage despite my persuasive thread gaining some attention and answer. For example, the latest major devlog wasn’t even posted on twitter despite being a very good opportunity for non-forum members to know how to gain early access to the beta.

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To give Nelson some credit, for a while now he’s changed how he presents textual content on Steam announcements and Blog devlogs. At some point he realized that a lot of people take his word verbatim, and don’t recognize that stuff is something just being thrown out there or might change, so he stopped doing that for the most part.


As far the specific timeline presented by OP goes, I’d assume most of the forum regulars are already aware of the circumstances behind why there was a sudden change, so I won’t touch on that too much.

However:

  1. The stuff currently in the demo makes up most of the currently complete/showcaseable gameplay content, as that’s the current approach Nelson has gone for with the demo builds.

  2. Pineridge was in a mostly-complete state with a mostly-playable demo at one point. The screenshots are from that development cycle, from before Nelson began redoing a lot of core stuff in order to improve the game long-term. Some of the less important content hasn’t been redone yet (various buildings, other weapons, the rest of the clothing, etc.).


There’s not really that much you can do to correct iteration. That’s a huge portion of game development, and when the issue is misguided community perception it’s a bit out of your own control sometimes.

The best suggestion I’d honestly have is just throwing “WIP”, “Subject to change”, “Placeholder”, or “Early Development” on all media—as big red text. He already reiterates relatively often that there’s no guarantees/promises in the actual blogs and such, so the only other thing is putting that idea on media.

Beyond that, there’s not much I can suggest. Although I’d appreciate it personally, I don’t think it’s worth tidying up some of the minor things in the demos like the item names or inconsistent rarities or lack of certain clothing items or character faces/hair until it’s more relevant in terms of the game’s development.


As a more-informed community member,

when you see them.


I’ll take someone who calls it 4.0 over someone who calls it 2.0 any day. I’ve accepted the 4, but the 2.0 has got to go. :angry:

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I’ve known that these ideas are subject to change, but I’ve used them as shortcuts to win an argument or to prove that an idea is worth considering, which could have helped give the impression that they are set in stone or that the community thinks they’re set in stone.
Personally, I don’t think it helps that he’s stopped throwing around such ideas, because it makes the ones that have already been put out there seem more special or closer to the works in progress that he’s trying to focus on more exclusively in his newer posts, Trello cards, etcetera.

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It’s weird to think how long it’s been in development now. My main concern starting 4 back in 2017 was to ensure the community understood where my time was going; that I hadn’t just stopped working or something. By now essentially all of the code has been rewritten at least once. I loaded up a version of the “Propland” map from 2018 just now and there were quite a few props ready for that version, here’s some of them:


There’s probably an alternate universe where I proceeded with that version, but I’m glad I decided to build the new asset pipeline and rework so much of the codebase.

Denizen will probably still be T-posing for a few more months until I implement melee weapons: my plan is for the fist melee item to be the default rather than having idle poses.

Hype isn’t too important to me right now. I’m looking forward to building the game with the interested community as it works its way up like early 3, and I suspect the zombie survival genre will become extra popular again in the mid 2020s at which point 4 will be super solid.

Media wise I did post a joke on twitter last big update! :smile: Trying to keep the beta access small still, however I’m planning to post Devlog #025 to twitter.

Watermarking work-in-progress is a good idea. I’ll start doing that going forward.

Version numbering right now is 4.year.major.minor. I’d like to do the same with 3 but that might make it even more confusing. For full titles I like Unturned and Unturned II, but U / UII doesn’t look as nice in my opinion so I’ve still been referring to them as 3 / U3 / 4 / U4. Maybe it would help to call it consistently 3.0 and 4.0 rather than 3 / 4 / 3.x / 4.x?

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If what you say is true, which is probably is, then I completely agree. Nelson should announce that the game is nowhere near complete, and estimated completion time is 2020 or something. He got people hyped way too early!

My question is, I’ve heard that the game is in Closed-Beta, yet you are saying it isn’t even in Alpha yet? From what I understood, Alpha already occurred and all the content creators and above were given access, and now it is CBT to which Experienced Beret holders and above were given access?

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Looked up a definition of Alpha and Beta in terms of testing, the game technically qualifies as “Beta Testing” as Alpha testing is a closed group,

Alpha testing performed by Testers who are usually internal employees of the organization

Beta testing is performed by “Real Users”.

Beta testing is performed by Clients or End Users who are not employees of the organization

However you could consider every test to be a Beta test due to the fact that SDG has no real employees other than Nelson. (For clarifications for future users, this reply was originally posted before Molton became the First Employee of SDG besides Nelson.)

I think of it more as an Alpha/WIP as when I think of Beta I think of the Beta days of a game like Minecraft, a game that has laid it’s groundwork, and is now adding more content. This is more of a me thing, so I should probably speak in terms/ways that everyone understands.

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The access given has always been for the demo, the first one being with the car. Nothing prior that was publicly released for users.

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Oh my god, if by mid-2020 the game is going to be super solid it means that the first version with map, zombies, weapons and survival mechanics is due out later this year, Nelson you again fed my hype.

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Don’t get hyped at this stage. Expect the beta to be on the level of Minecraft Pocket Edition’s first version. Then when the beta actually comes, your expectations will be blown out of the water.

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You do you neslon. I agree with Spebby that the hype could be dialed back, but I think you should just do your thing.

My idea on the hype is that people who are truly interested will figure out more information on their own and realize the state the game is in right now. If they do nothing but beg for access and think its almost done then that’s their fault. I’d be amazed if I had more buildings to “examine” though.

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*by “mid 2020s” I meant like 2025

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It’d be great if we could keep this game going past 2100. The Unturned series shall live on for eternity!

Some great games do take over a decade to be made though and some of them have already been around for a decade or more while still having an active playerbase.

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100 year franchise.

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Unturned: 2076

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Nice should be enough time to release Kuwait

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I would make a rio joke but that already released.

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so what i’ve learned from all of you is that nuance is dead

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