Weapon Jamming

You might have an issue on your end, because that does not happen to me unless I have extreme lag.

I have to disagree, this is a major inconvenience. Gunplay can not be crippled to stop people from “spraying and praying”. Like i said above in the comments, the spray and pray mentality of 3.0 is due to its easy access of full auto guns and there common rarity. A couple things can changed to remedy this in U2. But first we need to break down the “spray and pray” term.

Spray and pray in 3.0 isn’t inherently the gun function (full auto) but instead multiple different issues.

  1. Spam jumping
  2. Third person peeking
  3. Third person accuracy
  4. The ease of access to fully functioning full auto guns. Makes it seem so common cause everyone can get one quick.

I don’t believe spray and pray should be remedied by making the character have to manage a 30 round mag but instead other methods can be used. I believe DayZ does this well. Guns spawn without mags and there a whole lot of different ammo and mags and guns that can spawn. 3.0 has military ammo and ranger ammo, making ammo too easy to get. This mechanic in DayZ forces players to use other guns instead of the straight meta because of access to mags and ammo type. But when I have the gun and one mag I don’t feel hindered except for the fact I only have one mag.

Full auto should be full auto. If you got the mag and the ammo you can shoot. Imagine someone running up on 3 bandits and he has to full auto them, but his gun overheats in his 30 round mag and gets him killed. Imagine someone new coming to the game and experiencing this feature.

Full auto guns are always gonna be sought after and used because of the fast fire rate. The reason people use them so much in 3.0 is because they over shadow all other firearm types. Better than LMG’s, SMG’s, pistols, shotguns, and snipers. If these classes where more balanced we could see more people using more variety of guns. SMG’s should be better at hip firing and quicker to full up, making them more sought after in close quarters. Snipers or single shot rifles should do be more accurate over long range. Making them the best tool for that scenario.

Just cause someone hits you with a full auto spray or uses a 30 round mag, doesn’t mean its spray and pray or bad gameplay. Jamming of dirty weapons should be a thing but not overheating. What about a gun like an MP7? The fire rate is quite high and the mag will go quite quick, will that gun overheat before emptying cause no one bursts SMG’s. I think you will find then that LMG’s will become the spray and pray go to weapon you dislike. This would make LMGers so much more powerful than someone with an AR making another unbalanced mess.

If LMGs became a spray and pray weapon I wouldn’t have an issue with that. They’re meant to sustain heavier fire than regular weapons but that comes at a cost of weight and maneuverability. The issue with ARs being able to do it just fine is that it pretty much eliminates the need to use anything else (at least in 3.0). I’m not saying that you take full-auto ARs and make them entirely impractical to use in full-auto, but to impose a soft limitation that won’t affect most people. 20-30 rounds was just a random number thrown out but for game play reasons I don’t support players being able to freely dump three magazines into someone just because their gun is full-auto. In my views at least, full-auto is best when you need suppression or when you’re shooting a target that is at least somewhat close to you.

SMGs, PDWs and LMGs can be left to dominate the full-auto play style but we should actually take steps to try and make ARs more of a balanced weapon choice. If Nelson does decide to implement overheating then he will put in the effort to make sure it isn’t too unfair.

Back to this now. An MP7 is not an AR therefore most of what I said wouldn’t really apply to it. My ideas for overheating of course would transfer over to other weapons but the main focus is ARs, because of how unbalanced they are in 3.0.

Many SMGs and PDWs don’t fire rounds as powerful as ones used in a typical assault rifle. Therefore, they won’t overheat as fast as one either. Open-bolt designs would be more common in this category so those specific weapons could get even more protection from overheating.

Gameplay is what matters most so these types of weapons would likely get a buff to how much heat they can handle just because. Their range limitations already make them inferior to ARs in various ways so I don’t see a reason to penalize them in the same way.

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Boot uses G36 as MG
Hurr why it not as precise as before
Hurr why plastic melt

As for the actual topic, yes please. Jamming is sadly basically never used in 3.X but I think it should absolutely be a thing.
I don’t think overheating should outright cause jams. It could degrade accuracy (either directly by thermal expansion of weapon parts or by the player character partially letting go of the hot gun), have a chance to cook of ammunition and thus cause misfires or just permanently damage the gun (or rather parts of it).

IMO, guns should spawn sometimes with mags, sometimes without.

cracks neck Here we go…
LMG: Large belt, relatively accurate, can be deployed to make it more accurate over range and reduce recoil. Best used to force enemies into cover and deny an area. Also shreds the shit out of enemies up close. Penetrates walls slightly better. Heavy and cumbersome though.
SMG: Stable, short ranged pocket brrrt guns. Usually can’t cut armor well, but have enough RoF to reliably suppress OpFor. Also good close defense against unarmored targets, and can beat up enemy body armor. Subclass of PDWs, able to compete against soft armor pretty well but losing some wound.
Shotgun: The weird one, in that it has almost no AP, relatively low range, but can breach doors and can also delete fleshy targets. Spread is always fixed regardless of ADS, but when sprinting/walking the gun will swing around a little, and essentially the circle of the spread will bounce around in a circle for the shot placement.

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3 mags sounds a lot better. But still just an annoying feature to deal with. If I have the ammo and the mags and the clean gun, it shouldn’t jam. LMG’s should just be more accurate mounted and have larger mags and do more damage. If ammo is to be rarer in U2 I don’t think I will see myself spraying my 3 mags, making overheating unnecessary.

damnit boys he’s fucking dead

Play on yukon. attach a cpu cooler to the gun. Cover the gun in ice cream. Shoot the gun from the inside of an ice bath. Put the gun in the fridge. Turn down the thermostat for once, stop worrying abouth the AC bill. If your gun does drugs then he’s already cool. Just giving you some ideas.

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This is how I think LMG’s should be balanced. Heavy and slow to shoulder but large belts of ammo and heavier damage. A mounted LMG is something to hide from.

I totally agree AR’s just dominate the playing field in 3.0. I just commented on another post talking about how other guns can see some stage light. I think AR’s are just naturally going to be most peoples go to weapon for its balance, decent effective range (short to medium), decent magazine’s 30-100 (I think AR 100 round mags are OP and should be left to LMG), decent fire rate, and stopping power.

I think SMG’s should see a boost in hip-fire accuracy making it a good close quarters room sweeper. While AR’s are less accurate at hipfire, people will be more likely to aim in as the SMG has already gunned you down. Where as the SMG will suffer in a medium range fight due to range limitations and the AR will be superior. Also most of this comes down to player skill but for the most part an AR will be better at mid range fights.

I think instead of giving AR’s a limitation to overheat, we need to make other classes excel in there respected range zones. SMG’s and shotguns should for the most part outclass an AR in short range. While single shot rifles will excel at long range for its accuracy.

The problem in 3.0 is simply the range all guns reach. A Hawkhound I believe travels 250m with extreme bullet drop, while an AR can go 200 with what feels the same bullet velocity. AR’s can pretty much out shoot a gun designed for that range, making them useless.

If I could fix 3.0’s current gun meta I would leave AR’s as they are and get rid of the 100 round drum, at most they could have a 60 round drum. LMG’s would do more damage and could be mounted for better accuracy, the larger mags would a bonus the LMG class only gets. SMG’s would be quick to shoulder and great at hip-firing, making them a go to base defender. Single shot rifles could travel way farther and would out class the AR at long range. Also I would change the whole bullet drop system and make it less extreme.

Apart from the Eagle-fire having the same accuracy at 500m that the sniper has in U2 closed beta (I know he will probably change that) I very excited for the gun play of U2. I believe a huge contributing factor to 3.0’s AR meta is the limitation all guns have on range, AR seem to do everything everyone else can but better.

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Possibly make automatic with rifles somewhat harder to control. Encourage bursts but give that aw fuck there’s five Zeds in my face I need a magdump right now option.

Could give them the same issues as they have IRL. FtF, Failure to Feed. The mag fails and breaks. So now you need to change mags. And make them bulky, since a Beta-C… Well, there’s just no good way to carry the damn thing…

Addendum:
Make gun barrels collide. Thus, in tight spaces, an AR will get stuck and have it’s aim knocked off.
Also, SMGs could use a reduction in weight, and their ammo could be more common, plus maybe take up less space with a collapsible stock or something?

I feel like the Hawkhound then should be using .308 and thus gain an increase in potential damage, range, shooting flatness, etc, while having a loud report and the like. It’d be so much easier if we knew if it was 5.56 or .308… Even if it’s 5.56, it should shoot flatter and farther, since it’s a longer barrel and the like.

This. Jesus christ, this is ridiculous.

Like a jam?

Yikes. I wouldn’t want it to go that far. As realistic as it is, always remember:
Realism doesn’t always equal more fun.

In technicality it all depends on how you carry your magazines, but drums shouldn’t be able to fit into a mag pocket on a vest, per se.

Not really necessary if submachine guns and larger rifles are balanced, that being SMGs dominating the bigger guns at close range.

Less weight is perfectly normal for a submachine gun, but more common ammo creates some janky issues:
What if it’s chambered in higher-caliber rounds like 7.62 or 5.56?
Then it would decrease the rarity of those rounds, and it would in turn be way too easy to obtain ammunition for your rifle.
Just keep the normal ammunition rarities and let natural selection do its thing.

>civilian hunting rifle
>.308 Winchester

No shit.
That’s not even a problem right now. The issue in U3 is that the guns actually define the bullet range, drop, and accuracy, and there’s really only 5 types of bullets overall. In U4 this will definitely be fixed, seeing as ammo mixing and more is gonna be implemented in the future.
Also, it should already have greater accuracy than an automatic rifle. It doesn’t need to change its caliber to be more effective.

Which is why we’re killing the old U3 bullet types.

If it sports a longer barrel that just means no matter what caliber is fired, it’s always 100% better in range and accuracy compared to that of a handgun or smaller rifle, for example.
So basically, yes.

Bullet drop in U3 is pretty much nonexistient <200m so either way it’ll have to get fixed.

Also, since Unturned II is a more survival based game and we’re on the topic of weapons in the game, full auto weapons should be extremely rare and only ever found at military bases or criminal/bandit/terrorist hideouts. Firearms that should be widely available should be rifles like the Sportshot (With 10 round rotary mags, 25 round banana mags, and 110 round drum mags).

The trade off of why one should have a Sportshot over another rifle is to lug around a shit load of ammunition and it being the most common type of ammo (50-100 rounds per 1x2 box), with the trade off being the low damage of the ammo. As well as other civilian rifles like a Mini 14, and other civilian rifles an example would be the Eaglefire which in the release version should not have full auto or burst capability. Rifles should come with trade offs, with higher damage rifles having more rare ammunition and lower damage rifles having more common ammunition.

As for the drum magazine question, here’s my solution. The drum mag should also be four times more heavy than a 30 round magazine. So for a single 100 round drum, one could carry four 30 round box magazines for example. If one wants to do less reloading they can go for the drum mag, if they want to carry more ammunition go with the box mags, it’s a pretty reasonable trade off if you ask me. Magazines breaking is a dumb idea, just make the drum mags four times heavier than box mags. It’s a simple trade off. Doesn’t make the game more fun, it just gives you more options.

Now remember, this is Unturned II not Arma 3. Realism for the sake of realism is a stupid idea unless you’re playing a military simulator. I mean the game we play is a game with explosive gum, for fucks sakes.

Btw, when I made my vehicle armor tier list a while back, it was to make sure people with supposedly heavily armored tanks don’t get beaned by some dude with a light machine gun, in other words to give people with tanks a proper fighting chance. Unturned is the only game I know of where tanks can be destroyed by some dude with a machine gun.

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I think that explosive gum is very realistic .
(thank you @dragon_beast for letting me test this even tho you didn’t answer)

al qaeda in untrnd!!1!

If your referring that 3.0’s bullet system being reworked for U2 is ridiculous, it is in fact not. U2’s beta already shows a promising future for weapon range, allowing for weapons to fire up to 500m.

If you are referring to the idea that I actually expect Nelson to change the current 3.0 bullet drop off than yes that is ridiculous.

I’d say it’s more like a full kilometer but I’d need another person on Firing Range to test if the shots actually go that far.

I was referring to the ungodly level of drop

I meant make 9x19, .45, etc, very common. In my mind, SMGs are an excellent entry level short range- medium range, close defense weapon that can back up a marksman rifle, or serve as a mainline weapon.

My thought was that it’d help make the trade-offs of an SBR/carbine rifle more appealing for people who practically live in urban areas

Well, the idea is that the mag stops feeding, so you need to reload now, and then down the line replace, or fix it with a spring or something. Alternatively, just increase base jamming chance.

And this would happen randomly or the magazine has durability? I don’t want to repair my magazines after every excursion from my base to keep them from breaking and ultimately causing my death.

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Hmm… Well, to balance it out, the standard 30, 40, rounders won’t jam. Drums have a degration rate, maybe they start at 0.01% chance and then increase with each shot. This make it realistic, and forces you to consider carefully the benefits.

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I think that magazines and guns shouldn’t have any chance to cause/suffer jam (absolutely 0%) until let’s say 70% durability. By guns not jamming at 100-71% I mean that they shouldn’t jam because of degradation, and jamming due to heating should be inaffected.