Weapon variety?


#1

Should 4.0 have the same weapon variety as 3.0?

Personally, I still want the weapon variety, but for them to be a LOT rarer. (And some other stuff to make them less op and such)

So, what do you want?

  • Yes
  • No
  • Yes(comment)
  • No(comment)

0 voters


#2

I want variety, but with more things to differentiate weapons than there was in 3.X.


#3

I would accept variety if they aren’t reskins of another.

If there’s a military rifle like the Eaglefire and a militia rifle like the Zubeknakov, I’d say the Eaglefire would be an ordinary assault rifle rifle (As the military prefers well-balanced weapons) while the Zubeknakov would be more powerful and durable but with worse recoil/spread


#4

I would like ranger weapons to be mostly equal to military weapons, instead of a handful of guns being outright superior (fusilaut being an absolute beast compared to eaglefire, or honeybadger being a complete upgrade compared to yuri) but also not reskins like the ekho and the timberwolf.

It would also be interesting to mess around with body multipliers, so having a sniper that does fairly low body shot damage but really high headshot damage, making it a risk and reward type gun.


#5

Actually I think that making weapons rarer won’t make anything better. Pretty much person with gun would rule the server, I think it would be better if guns would be only rarer in civilian areas


#6

I’m just gonna pull something from a post I’ve been working on.

While 5.8 DBP, 5.45 Warsaw, and 5.56 NATO would be the intermediate cartridges of various military locations, I would like to see the heavier hitting, but generally ballistically inferior .30 Carbine, 7.62 Soviet, 7.62 Czech, and 8 mm Kurz in the militia/ranger locations of appropriate maps.

The more modern intermediate cartridges could provide less recoil, base damage, bullet drop, and damage drop off, while the older intermediate cartridges would generally be harder hitting against unarmored targets up close, but less controllable and less effective against targets that are armored or at further ranges.


#8

I was mostly thinking about melee weapons when I wrote my first reply, but everyone seems to have gone straight to SMGs and assault rifles. I don’t think weapons need to be rare, but I think more of them should be things like muskets, air rifles, bows, crossbows, slings, spearguns, and powerheads and that cartridges should be diverse enough that handloading is important and rare enough that blasting away with a machine gun or antitank gun at anything that moves isn’t sustainable. Instead of stockpiling rare ammo until they have enough of it that they “might as well run around with the sniper rifle for a while” players should be forced to consider scrapping their tank missles so that they’ll have enough lead and propellant to reload the .223 brass that they’re using to fight for their survival.


#9

I would like to see Ranger guns be an inbetween for civilian and military weapons.

A few modern Russian weapons wouldn’t be a bad idea though, which would be on par with military guns, like an AK-12 or something.


#10

I think the AK-12 should be considered military-grade not ranger-grade. It may be Russian, but I think it would make more sense for 5.45 AKs to be in military locations and 7.62 AKs to be in militia locations.


#11

Russia: Ranger = Military

America: Military = C I V I L L I A N

That’s a bit realistic enough already


#12

Only makes sense on a Russian map. Otherwise, I think on maps with regular NATO weapons, things like the AK-12 should be a very rare ranger spawn.


#13

IMO we need to entirely do away with the “civilian-ranger-military” designations.

Country of origin, caliber, and societal variables should be the main proponent in determining where a weapon fits within the overall meta. No more cookie-cutter rough sorting that makes little sense to some players, just a full and varied spectrum.


#14

I don’t think an AK-12 belongs in most non-Russian maps. Maybe it could be found in airdrops, NPC shops, small arms collections or auction houses, but in a bunker full of AKMs or sitting on a radio tower it would be just as out of place as an HK416 would be.


#15

What do you mean by variety tho? Amount? Countries of origin? Stats differences?


#16

I was about mentioning exactly that.

But I also wanted to stat that when talking about eapon variety, first let’s have in mind that all ammo calibers will be realistic and separated in a wider selection for every gun like IRL, breaking the "civilian-military-ranger" ammo calibers and gun types spectrum, that isn’t really accurate.

In second place we should have a wider weapons sorting, because there are some inconsistencies on guns classifications in 3.0 due to lack of variety and balance (as crazy as it sounds, yes, there’s lack of variety), because some weapons aren’t even on the category they belong to. Basically I’m suggesting to expand weapons categories and those to be much more accurate, so there might be in UII:

  • SMG’s and Carbines aren’t the same:

    • SMG’s are short-small guns which uses handgun ammo. They have fast firing and quite reduced stopping power and range.
    • Carbines instead are compact versions of assault rifles, which reduces weight, accuracy and firepower of their large versions in order to improve mobility.
    • PDW’s are likely a combination of both previous, but fires their own type of rounds for decent firepower and range. There should be more of these in the game if we want true variety, as there was really few of those in 3.0 (the Honeybadger and the Peacemaker).
  • About sharpshooters: recategorizing here is important, because “sharpshooter” term by itself could refer to either marksman rifles or sniper rifles, so to avoid confusions and be more accurate, that line should be drawn. Also, there should be battle rifles, so there’s a mid gap between assault and marksman weapons.

  • Lever actions: these kind of weapons would be far much commoner in US and Canada maps than anywhere else, but if we ask for variety, those should do a comeback and not just as a shotgun, since there are lever actions for wider calibers, such as .22, .357 and .44.

In third place but probably most important, we have the locations and guns employment. It has to make sense where I find certain types of guns having in mind the country on which the map is set and what formerly usage had the gun on the place I’m looting; e.g. while in the US I may find an AK 105 in gun shops, mafia warehouses or militia hideouts, in Russia it’s one of the standard military assault rifles.


#17

It would be nice if all weapons have varying spawn chances and since we have mods and things like that coming in Unturned II, it would be nice if you could find an Eaglefire with a lightweight handguard and an extended barrel and maybe a scope already attached, like a DMR rifle and then find other weapons with different configurations on spawn, instead of having to grind for a specific part. Of course, i’m not saying the weapons should ALWAYS come with a certain configuration, just that some weapons spawn with attachments already on them, doesn’t necessarily need to be a certain configuration.


#18

What weapons would actually fit this category? The AK-74U and M4 carbine? The biggest changes in length on these come from their barrels and stocks, which in 4.X will not be integral to the weapon itself, but customizable parts. I’m not saying that the AK-74U shouldn’t be in the game, but if it is the chief differences between it and a standard AK-74 would be it’s increased rate of fire and recoil. Sure, it may spawn by default with a shorter barrel and folding stock, but that doesn’t mean it should be balanced as a completely different class of weapon than all of the others that fire the same cartridge from the same magazines and accept all the exact same attachments. If you had suggested having cavalry carbines and infantry rifles, I would raise all the same points. The only carbine classifications I think would fit Unturned would be for pistol caliber carbines (basically the semiautomatic or manual action equivalent to SMGs) or for the semiautomatic (and manual action) versions of assault rifles (as assault rifles almost universally are the same length or shorter than cavalry carbines, and the English language never differentiate between fusiles and rifles.)

I wouldn’t put the AAC Honey Badger and the FN P90 in the same class of weapons one of them fires what is essentially the .223 Remington that assault rifles fire, just necked up to .30 caliber while the other fires a light but fast pistol cartridge and needs every one of its 50 shots.


#19

Actually… Yes

It’s all official IRL, not an invention of mine, so yeah…


#20

While these words do exist, it should be kept in mind that certain weapons can be classified under those words by certain definitions, while other weapons can be classified under those same words with even slightly different definitions, and every weapon can fall under the definitions of many different words, and that not all definitions are relevant in all circumstances. In Unturned II the length of a weapon will be different depending on the attachments used so the length of a weapon isn’t inherent to how the weapon itself should be categorized and balanced, but to how the attachments should be balanced. Furthermore, the arbitrary limitation of the term carbine to only ‘assault rifle’ like weapons isn’t even supported by the page you linked to. Defining PDW solely by the effective range, is once again irrelevant, because the Honeybadger, for example, could easily be made more effective at range by putting a longer .223 barrel on it. Weapons should be classified by things that are actually inherent to the weapon, not by what it’s default attachments are like. The aspects of weapons that (in Unturned) are inherent to the weapon, and not determined by its attachments are the firemodes, the rate of fire, the cartridge (though not necessarily what caliber bullet is in the cartridge) and what feed systems it is compatible with. The first and third of those I would argue are the most important to consider when classifying most firearms.

An example of how I would classify weapons for Unturned II

Any long arms that use Needlefire cartridges are needleguns/fusiles de aguja

Long arms that fire full power rifle cartridges are service rifles/rifles, unless they are select-fire, in which case, they are battle rifles/fusiles de combate

Long arms that fire pistol cartridges are (pistol caliber) carbines/carabinas, unless they are select-fire, in which case they are submachine guns/subfusiles

Long arms that fire intermediate cartridges are (intermediate caliber) carbines/fusiles

Long arms that fire HMG cartridges are antimateriel rifles/fusiles antitanques

Long arms that fire magnum rifle cartridges are sniper rifles/fusiles francotiradores

Any long arms that fire shotgun shells are shotguns/escopetas

Any long arms that fire grenade shells are grenade launchers/lanzagranadas

Also, we’ve gotten super offtopic, so if you want to continue this discussion, you should either DM me, or @ MoltonMontro to split the thread.


#21

I love having variety and heavy customization. As long as the loot spawns are balanced (as all things should be), everything will be fine.