Yet another Third Person post


#1

Alright so before I start, I want to let you know that this is somewhat a sensitive topic to some and has also been discussed multiple times. I mean… a fuck ton of times to be exact. However, I would like to show you my solution to a third person fix as I have looked through the forum and havent found anyone mentioning this yet.

I wont even start to tell you if and why third person is broken, instead I will just straight up get to the juice:

For Unturned II (or possibly even Unturned 3.0 aswell) there should be another “person mode”.
Theres currently: First, Both and the “middle third thingy” person mode that you can enable in the server options.

So what should be done to balance firefights and third person peeking?
I have found a post here where someone suggested that the fov should zoom in when “aiming down sights” while being in third person. This is a good idea and would make the fights more fair and competitive, but its still not the perfect solution.

I think it would be great if you can go third person and see everyone you want to, but when it comes to aiming, you shouldnt be able to “aim down sights” while being in third person since its just super op and you technically dont even aim down sights. So whenever someone wants to aim down sights in third person, it forces him to first person and aims down sights immediately. There should be a smooth but still quite quick transition between those perspectives. And whenever you stop aiming down sights you go back into your third person again.

This way you would have to decide if you rather hipfire jump around the corner and probably miss alot of shots depends on how far the enemie is away, or jump around and continue fighting in first person.

This is not a perfect solution by any means, but its from what I can tell the best and most simple one.
Let me know what you think about it and/or how this could be improved even more.

btw, keep the spelling and grammar mistakes :slight_smile:


Shots to down/kill
#2

So…basically no aiming or ADS at all in third person? Interesting.

But just for clarification, is this a limitation on third person in general or is this the default point of view, wheras first person is just whenever you aim down sights or whatever?


#3

You automatically go first person when ADS and out when stopping & you can toggle first and third person. So whenever its toggled to first person, theres no difference to what it currently is like.

And this could either be a server option, another perspective or (what I would personally prefer) the default and also only perspective.


#4

Aight, thanks for elaborating.


#5

This doesn’t fix any problem with third person peeking, besides with scopes. It does balance first vs third person firefights, giving players in third person the same ability as first person players to acquire targets whilst aiming down sights, which is slightly detrimental to victory in PvP, to some more than others.

Yes, it is a great solution to balance firefights with people in first and third person, but the fact that one of the players knows of the enemy’s location is the real kicker when it comes to PvP.

If a third person player is behind a wall and sees an enemy coming at him who doesn’t know he’s there, the third person player would start firing before he even sees the first person player, in order to remove the slight and very crucial delay for people to react and decide as to whether or not they would waste their bullets in the first place, giving the third person player that extra bit of damage that he needs to win the firefight.
As for the other player, he’ll have to deal with having ~1/4 of a second wasted without firing a shot while taking fire, not including the time it takes for him to get out of the running animation, if he’s running.
Although you probably already know this.


#6

The perfect solution is removal. Balance and fair play above all else.


#7

I’d much rather stick to UII’s existing system from Devlog #002 where the crosshairs entirely disappear during ADS. (An early example of this is timestamped for your convenience.)

However, I do agree with @Number_one here. The primary edge third person gives isn’t so much aiming, but rather, the ability to spot while not being spotted yourself. So either way, this wouldn’t be very much of a change. I’d actually personally prefer the flat-out removal of third person, with the possible exception of vehicles and admin/singleplayer cinematic tools.


#8

Im only going to argue against your words because I like how the freelook looks for it.

So yeah…


#9

It doesnt fix the peeking thats completly true. But that exactly what third persons are for.
You cant have a third person where you arent able to corner peek without the other one knowing you are there, unless you do it like SCUM and make so enemies are invisible as long as you wouldnt also see them when being in first person. However, its a really bad and confusing way in my opinion and wouldnt fit to Unturned at all.

I do agree that having first person only removes all the unbalanced third person activities and would be the best solution, but im pretty sure that this is not going to happen. Most Unturned players love third person and its what Unturned became sadly. Im not saying removing it will make most players not play the game anymore, but theres always a bunch of players that would like to see a third person in the game.

The best solution then would be to have a first person only and third person (with my solutions) perspective. For those that done want third person at all, there will be a bunch of first person only servers for sure. For those that still want to have third person, there will at least be more balanced third person gameplay overall.


#10

Having no crosshair barely fixes anything in that situation.

  1. players could just use third party software or draw a dot on their monitor and could abuse it that way.
  2. you realise where the mid is quickly after you start spraying.

There needs to be a bigger spread or more recoil than first person ADS to balance it.


#11

Im trying to find solutions for a better and more balanced third person experience.
The perfect solution for that is not removal.


#12

I think this was already suggested


#13

Well, these two points also equally counter your own suggestion.

Players can do that at any time regardless.

I’d say you definitely realize where the middle is far faster when it literally snaps to your first person opticals like you suggested. In fact it’d be even more OP than 3.0’s third person, since now you have the ability to switch from third person peeking to precision aim almost immediately.


#14

Lemme clap ur cheeks real quick here

I agree with this, third person is made to completely destroy any semblance of situational awareness and the skill that comes with it. This appeals to the “casual” which I think is stupid, as instead of just having the game be fun which should draw in people, you gut a massive chunk of the skill ceiling just for casuals. Personally, I am more inspired to play a game when I watch people who are really really good at it absolutely shit on people, and third person, even the way you described it, detracts from this, along with the general fun fact of firefights being fair and engaging, but im usre you know this aleady

I actually agree with this, SCUMs third person is really buggy and sometimes you can see people when you shouldnt/dont see people when you should, and in general adds an amount of randomness that makes pvp unfun.

No one loves third person, its just that you need to use it or you will be at a massive disadvantage in all firefights. No one likes it, they just have to use it, and its a crutch as the more you use third person the worse you get at first person. I think most people would actually like third person being removed, as they would get the crutch taken away and finally get to have fair and fun fights. The only reason people dont play on first person is because of that crutch, and because the majority of servers still force you to play with the crutch. This is why I stopped playing unturned, because the gameplay, especially the pvp was getting really boring and repetitive because of third person, all while being bad for my aim.

Again, crutches. As you can see in 3.0, third person takes over the playerbase, not because they like it but because they can not play without it. The second more than 50% of servers run thirdperson, it is already over.

Yes.

Third person can not be balanced, unless you somehow remove the information part of it like scum, as that is what makes it so powerful, and the only example of it is scum, and in that game its horribly bugged.

But, I emailed Nelson a while back and he did say he was most likely not going to have third person enabled on official servers, so luckily that part of the game wont be horribly broken.


#15

They obviously can. But those that have a dot in the middle of their screen while others dont, abuse it and basically gives them an unfair advantage.

Right now in Unturned it doesnt make a difference, since theres crosshairs anyways.
With my solution it wouldnt make a difference either, since it wouldnt help those that “cheat”.


#16

I recall Nelson Sexton stating that he would be focusing more on the survival aspect for Unturned II, now, a good survival game, from my point of view, would be giving the player a hard time in all respects.

There is no risk to hiding behind a wall in third person, watching a man go by, waiting for the right time to strike, knowing his every location.
Watching somebody is incredibly hard, you need to keep your silhouette as minimal as possible and have near perfect colour blending to be able to keep constant contact, and try to predict their future movements while making as little visual contact as possible.
Actually, any contact whatsoever in a game like Unturned, where the players are unmistakably players, could be fatal, to either you or your enemy.

Unturned players also like PvP more than survival, look at the server list, it’s Kits Rocket PvP until kingdom come.
Any vanilla server you see is just about empty or is about to disappear.
People who want to play Unturned for what it’s meant to be, a survival game, will vouch for first person only, and the abolishment of third person for the sake of not only balance, but to bring strategy back to PvP, to make first person the only option, if third person exists, people will use it, because it brings a massive advantage to those who use it, and so begins the normalization of third person usage.

There is only one thing which makes third person so powerful. Information, information which allows the side who knows how to attack in the scenario inevitably win.
If I were at the end of a corridor behind a wall with a shotgun, and somebody didn’t know I was there, I would not only always win the fight because I know exactly when to attack and where the person is, but the person would always lose because they don’t know I was there at all.
But if shotgun man didn’t have third person, he would have to peek to know I was there. If, in a scenario where he was in first person and I used proper tactics on clearing the structure, he probably would wind up dead, as when he peeks around the corner, I can shoot him dead.

If you don’t get it, information is the most powerful weapon in war, people will use it no matter what, people will develop a crutch of using it, it will spread like a disease until first person is gone.
And why? Because when people are given an option, they pick the one which is most beneficial.
If I gave you the option to win or lose, you would always pick win. Because it’s most beneficial.

And that brings us to our next point.

This gives me a wonderful idea. To change the image of Unturned into a survival game and tell the current Unturned community that we don’t want their kind in a survival game, poisoning its image of a survival game, we could abolish third person altogether!
Then people who actually play Unturned for the fact that it’s a survival game will play Unturned for the fact it’s a survival game, and a damn good one now at that, hopefully.
The part of the community that we (presumably) don’t want will be gone! Doesn’t that sound great?

Ah, I know just the tonic: a poll.
Select all you would like to see in Unturned II.
It’s multiple choice, fools. You can’t just pick vehicular third person, because then players would be blind.

  • First person.
  • First/third person split.
  • Third person.
  • Vehicular third person.

0 voters


#17

I am actually kind of surprised about this email.
I thought TP was 100% going to be in survival, well I was assuming.

Well, but we still have the pvp gamemodes where this could help balancing it.


#18

Agreed. Thats the reason I havent launched the game in 2 months.

Information is a part of it, but not the only thing. Aiming and shooting is just so much easier.
Basically no recoil, no ironsight in your line of sight, no muzzle and vision about whats happening around you while shooting are just the main features to why third person gunplay is unbalanced AS HELL. I agree with what you said that information is really important, but its not everything.

It also wouldnt be as bad as it is right now if there wasnt as much desync. Right now the one peeking will be able to shoot the other one before he can even see him. But prefire is and will be op, I agree.

If you have information, but no gun… hmmmmm /s

It does indeed. But its not up to us to decide which community should exist and which shouldnt.
Yes we can say we dont like TP, but that doesnt mean that all TP players shouldnt play this game anymore. Like Nelson said:

if there was TP only in pvp gamemodes, then it would be a compromise. Survival should be FP and PVP can be TP or FP. I think this would make everyone happy at the end.


#19

Someone suggested something like Cuisine Royale

Basically when you go into third person a small butterly will hover around you. This balances out the fact you can see around walls because now other people standing behind walls will see your butterfly, and vice versa.

very stupid, very interesting. so mad it may just work. :thinking:


#20

i don’t think we should use cuisine royale as inspiration for a semi serius survival game,
or maybe thats just me