A warning against 'The Paywall'

Unturned II U4 Discussion
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I already detailed in another post rambling on about how Official Servers would officially promote P2W, but now looking back I think Official Servers will just be terrible in general, really.

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The Walloof

Many people argue that a paywall will generate funds for Nelson, and that a paywall would be a passive defense to keep hackers for the most part off the servers. Yet ultimately, if nobody buys into the paywall, Nelson wont be making money and there will be nobody to protect hackers from to begin with.

However, the Official Servers as a concept will be entirely dead. Hardly anyone would pay to play on them. Why would they? Their poor friends cant come along, so they’re forced to either try playing on two servers simultaneously, or they dont pay and just play with their friends on terrible, unfair, rented, P2W community servers.

And, for the sake of argument, you have no friends to worry about playing with and you’re set to go out and play! Theres no big groups to defeat, overthrow, or rival you. Just small tribal groups of players - which those players are also dealing with the same conflict raised in the last paragraph.

Nelson has expressed, or at-least generally shown that he does not want to repeat the crappy small-scale tribal warfare of 3.0, as he liked this post about 4.0 being bigger, more options to explore, more end-game things to do, bigger, gigantic groups, so on.

Furthermore, there will be zero nooby players on Official Servers. Who would download the game and immediately choose to buy DLC? Nobody does that. There will be a giant absence of less-skilled players to either exploit or help out, leaving no space to help out new players and perhaps team with them, and teach them about the game. Instead, you’re left with a hostile environment of pro players that all almost always believe in just KOSing everything.

Speaking of pro players,
there will always be that one group that are full of elitist cucks who will all get the DLC and then continue to dominate the single Official Server. Thats right, single. Why give a big supply of servers when the demand for them is so small? Theres plenty of super toxic elite groups that are more than willing to do this kind of BS.

A big, unified group of 10 or so players would EASILY demolish all the small tribal groups on the server and enforce dominance. And without a proper system setup to allow groups to ally or team with eachother, they will continue to dominate endlessly with no effective opposition or resistance. I personally am very familiar with the effectiveness of large, unified groups working in cooperation.

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So there you have it. The state of Official Servers will be sparse, nearly empty servers with small groups of people being dominated by one or two big toxic elite clans. Sure, maybe in the beginning it wont be like this because of initial hype, but this scenario will just scale upwards - say, if Nelson rents another or more servers. Other giant, elite toxic groups will take their place on the others and the same scenario will ensue.

Then again, even IF the Official Servers become the opposite, and DO become popular for whatever reasons, the argument from the post initially mentioned comes into play. Official Servers are a double-edged sword for Nelson to wield.

very small contradiction you may have noticed and am pointing out before someone makes a comment and screams “CHECKMATE!”

I said early in the post there will be no big group to rival, but later on go to say a big elite group will.

  1. Either way, its still a shitty scenario. No big group? You’re stuck in small-scale tribal warfare, which isnt what the game is meant to be in Nelsons eyes. Big toxic group? You’re fucked.

  2. I want to make a distinction between your run-of-the-mill average skill medium-sized group of 4-6 players, compared to a Zerg of elite, extremely toxic, well-coordinated, hateful teenagers that waste all of their time on the game and have giant amount of numbers, 8-16 or so.

One is a reasonable foe that, with much dedication and teaming up can be defeated and overthrown. The other is an unstoppable force of degeneracy and toxicity that nobody likes being around, playing against, or anything of the matter.

  • A paywall is necessary, so we should and must have one
  • A paywall is unnecessary, and will just kill the entire idea of Official Servers to begin with
  • I clicked the wrong button like a fool, another classic blunder
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My guess is that with addition of paid official (and at the same time vanilla) servers there will also be people who would want to play without paying and that would cause demand for community ran vanilla servers, which would be available for free for everyone.

Also dominating groups are always a thing and I would guess they are present in every game and they will also be present on community servers if official ones turn out to be empty, it would be natural turn of events. With noone to kill the game would get boring for them and they would move on. It’s already been said that 4.0 will also put more focus on PvE so I would guess that PvE servers will also be a thing if getting dominated by a certain group is your worry (also I completely don’t see need for linking some random steam group, it’s completely irrelevant in this discussion and seems like you pointing a finger at some people just because you don’t like them).

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Theres plenty of demand for community-ran vanilla servers in 3.0. What do we have now? What makes the difference? They’re just going to be P2W and crappy all over again.

They are a pretty notorious infamous group that embrace their toxicity, but I guess I should remove it.

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There isn’t much demand for it seeing how there’s only couple servers running vanilla. That being said I never have problems to find vanilla servers. Lots of people who scream they want vanilla servers don’t seem to play the game at all anymore.

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Ha, you fool. You can’t do the actually lines. HA noob. Delet this suggestion.

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If we compare these paid official servers in Unturned II to the Gold-restricted ones in 3.0, I can definitely see most of these things being an issue. When I first got back into Unturned the Gold servers seemed to have a fairly decent population and were generally running with heavily-boosted loot rates. With where the game is now, I rarely if ever see even one Gold server that has more than three to five people online.

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On a more serious note, don’t you run your own “massive zerg.” Arent you being hypocritical?

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What guarentees me stuff like this won’t happen more in free servers?

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i wish i could understand something in this burbling

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I’d buy the pass even if I did not want to play on the servers, just to support Nelson.

What you fail to see is this: If they do not work, Nelson still gets money to do what he loves, making games. Worst case scenario players do not get their moneys worth, word spreads, nobody buys it unless they want to support Nelson.

A big and/or well organized group will always dominate the server(s), always been that way and probably will be. Do you want them to be punished for organizing?

Me and a bunch of friends run 4 vanilla servers, and there are pretty much always 3 to 5 players on there give or take. And they are basically always in the high double digits if not outright full during prime-time.
That is with unreasonable amount of rollback, lag and what you’d call “ab00sive admins”. I don’t see why literal official, properly hosted servers would do any worse.

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welcome back to another episode of: “everyone dogpiles rain!”

Battleye, and I know you will probably say “battleye doesnt work, ive seen x cheaters” Can’t validate your estimation, but I can count the amount I have seen on my fingers so :man_shrugging:

So UII is completely screwed no matter what and will flop as a game? Awesome.

Thats quite the assumption, he probably liked the meat of your post

This is actually a fair point, but normal people who can afford to waste time playing video games can usually afford to pay 5 dollars, and the “officialness” might attract a decent chunk.

…Other zergs?? Why would this not happen on free servers?

:thinking:

Again, a massive massive assumption.

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no shit mate

yeah whatever you think

there are no issue with some nolifers dominating other nolifers, either kick their ass or embrace and quit whining

thats exact point of survival gaems, the survival, and hostile environment is a part of it either by nature or 15 year olds

why double edged? because a official server is obviously better than some server popped recently with
vip kits and 100$ for admin

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“Running” vanilla. Do you mean like… genuine vanilla servers? Genuine vanilla is terrible. It does not have

  • auto-saving
  • The ability for staff to effectively moderate
  • Permission tables to prevent server staff from having unnecessary abusive permissions, such as spawning items, vehicles, experience, and so on.

Rocket servers that are like vanilla are the best you will get. And there is not a single Rocket server like that, that is also popular, non-p2w, so on.

I think you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Nothing. But the DLC is an official contract between you and SDG giving you access to servers. That are empty or dominated by elite groups. Nobody would like that, and it looks bad on Nelson and, ontop of that, you dont have to spend money to join a community server.

If they do not work, Nelson gets a negative reputation and so does his DLC. The contract is useless.

What you fail to see is this: Even the most elite groups can be taken down, under the assumption the server is full. Furthermore, with the Better Together suggestion, rival groups of the toxic clan can team up to out-compete them. We are under the assumption that the servers will not be full because they’re worthless, and so again, as I clearly stated in the post

Vanilla. Genuine vanilla. :heavy_check_mark::male_detective:

What does BE have anything to do with this? The argument here, that I think you mistaken-ed, is that the whole idea of the “passive” protection of pay-to-play is foiled by the assertion that nobody will pay. Theres no players to protect. I can run an empty pass-word protected server and claim I’m “protecting” everyone on it from hackers by making it whitelisted. Does that mean anything?

Regarding BE, I made an entire post explaining that its not working

All games with community servers suffer shitty unfair ones. Some communities like Gmod dont do absolutely anything, and the people who distaste those servers eventually leave the game (like me) while the kids that are fine with it stay. Unturned can surely be like that, and it is like that evidenced in 3.0. The game is evidently dying down more and more, while people continue to call for good servers. A cool person in the community wrote this as a review

the%20truth

And there are many like it. Nobody can find good servers, and Nelsons attempt at providing a fair, fun one at the expense of buying the experience is just a rigged way to avoid dealing with quality control of the server-list.

This argument was already discussed in the linked initial thread. No, there are not. There are TONS of steam accounts playing Unturned that are not premium, IE, they haven’t bought anything on steam.

Some people are brand new to the internet, some people are under-aged and cant get money on the internet, some people only play free games like I did for the first few months on steam, so on and so fourth. Not everyone in your friend group is willing to pay 5$ just for dead servers.

Explained up

An educated guess.

Also, an educated guess.

cool, you see the problem. argument over. I guess we can sail back on home

No need to be rude about it

Haha. Yes. Very effective argument you have there.

“If you don’t like it, leave,” in all its variations, is a coward’s argument. It’s an argument made by people who are afraid of debate, don’t understand logic, and want to escape the fray as quickly as possible.

“If you don’t like, leave,” implies that arguing for change is not permissible.

“If you don’t like, leave,” implies that dissent is unwarranted.

“If you don’t like, leave,” implies that diversity of mind is out of bounds.

I think you are completely missing the point.

Did you… even read the post?

When I first started posting on the forum, I did one comment per reply and that was frowned upon. I apologize that you guys jump the gun and all post in unison before I can even reply effectively to the first person. Sorry, not sorry.

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i rereaded your shit twice and i didnt found actual argument after “10$ to play official server bad”

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There seems to be a fundamental flaw in your understanding of the official server pass. The server pass will not exist to generate revenue or filter out undesirables. Nelson has said from the outset that the purpose would be to pay server costs. The number of official servers, and how long Nelson keeps them running will scale with how much demand their is for them, although at first the number of official servers will probably be based on the amount Nelson is willing to pay for the servers out of pocket (unless people purchase the pass before Nelson actually starts paying for servers)

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Generate revenue… to pay for the server costs? Does it even matter what he uses the money on? That is beyond this argument, and pretty irrelevant in general. And yes, even if Nelson did not directly think or want it to filter out undesirables, it will.

Which is… exactly why I said there would be only a single Official Server. Because the demand will be so low for them, at-least after a while of toxic elite groups dominating.

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honestly i rather would face big ass clans with my mates on official, stable server than some noobshits with hax or admin powah for 10$ on public

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Well I for one would be willing pay money to avoid you.

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I’m not trying to backseat moderate or anything, but I want this to be a genuine discussion without memes or other irrelevant stuff clogging up the stuff. Its almost a big post as it is. just kindly asking. :hearts:

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Money does not work on AnComs. or so I have been told.
In all seriousness tho, it’ll keep people like Rain out, so that’d already be a reason for me to get it (besides wanting to support NolsoN).

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